[Update] Marie Versos & Debbie Cisco: The Murders That Changed Ohio Law
A Marriage Turned Deadly
Marie Versos was a hardworking woman living in Ohio. She had been married to Shaun Goe, but the relationship had become toxic and abusive. Marie made the difficult decision to leave. She filed for divorce. She obtained a restraining order. She did everything she was supposed to do to protect herself.
But the system failed her.
The Murders
In June 2022, Shaun Goe was arrested for violating the restraining order. He was held in jail—but only briefly. Days later, he was released.
Marie had no idea he was free.
On June 13, 2022, Shaun went to the home Marie had once shared with him. Marie's mother, Debbie Cisco, was there. Shaun shot and killed both Marie and her mother in cold blood.
After the murders, Shaun posted a long manifesto on social media. In it, he blamed Marie for everything. He claimed she had abused him, lied to him, and destroyed his life. He painted himself as the victim and Marie as the villain. He called the murders "justice."
Then Shaun Goe took his own life.
The Discovery
Marie's brother, Alex Versos, saw Shaun’s social media post and immediately knew it was a suicide note. He became terrified for Marie's safety. When he finally got in touch with his mother Debbie's boyfriend, Jose, he learned the horrifying truth: Marie and Debbie were dead.
The Systemic Failure
Marie had done everything right. She left her abuser. She filed for divorce. She got a restraining order. She reported violations to police. She sought protection from the legal system.
But when Shaun was released from jail, no one told Marie. She had no idea he was free. She had no chance to protect herself.
Marie & Debbie's Law
In the wake of this tragedy, Alex Versos channeled his grief into action. He fought for a new law in Ohio that would require domestic violence victims to be notified when their abuser is released from custody.
In 2024, Ohio passed "Marie & Debbie's Law."
The law ensures that victims are immediately notified—via phone, text, or email—when their abuser is released from jail or prison. It gives victims the chance to protect themselves, to leave, to prepare.
Alex Versos said: "In spite of my grief, I've pushed forward because I believe this measure would've added an additional shield of protection for my mom and my sister. While this legislative milestone is bittersweet without them, I'm hopeful this bill will save lives."
The Legacy
Marie Versos and Debbie Cisco are gone, but their names live on in a law that could save countless lives. Their tragedy exposed a critical gap in the system—and their family fought to close it.
If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence:
•National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-SAFE (7233)
•Text START to 88788
•Visit thehotline.org
You are not alone. Help is available.
TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00] Hey guys, and welcome to the Moms and Mysteries podcast, a True Crime podcast featuring myself, Mandy, and my dear friend Melissa. Hi, Melissa. Hi, Mandy. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing great. You're looking a dobs in your new glasses. Oh, well thank you so much. Yes. Glasses are a new thing in my life.
Well. Kind of, I've had glasses before. Well, I was supposed to and I didn't wear them. And now as a result of that, my vision is worse. So now I have to wear them. I, I absolutely hear you and I'm right behind you on that. Um, I can't find mine, but then I realized my prescriptions changed, so I should probably just, you know, get the ones that work.
But Mandy, we are gonna do something a little bit different today. We're actually going to be revisiting a case that we told back in October of 2023. It's a big one. The update is big. The story was big, and there have been these huge, significant updates and even changes to the laws, which we haven't seen a whole lot of.
And we get to [00:01:00] share all of that with you guys at the end of the episode. So we're gonna play the episode of the Murder of Marie Versos and Debbie Cisco. And at the end stick around because we have a huge update to tell you guys.
Since 1987, October has actually been recognized as National Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and according to the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, the month was started as a way to connect and unite individuals and organizations working on domestic violence issues while also raising awareness for them.
Although there's been great progress made over the last 30 years, the mission to support domestic violence victims and survivors and to hold their abusers accountable remains a top priority for the N-C-A-D-V. And they work to create and update legislation to further those goals. Unfortunately, domestic violence is something that the world continues to struggle with, and the threat that domestic violence victims face is very real.
Today's story is a cautionary tale that [00:02:00] reminds us that sometimes even when we do everything right to protect ourselves and stay safe, it's not enough. There's still a lot of work to do when it comes to protecting victims of domestic violence and preventing their abusers from escalating violence against them.
It was April 12th, 2021 when Alex Yon logged into Facebook and saw a post that immediately made his stomach sink. The post was by 36-year-old Sean Zos, Alex's brother-in-law. Shauna had married to Alex's sister named Marie for eight years, although the couple had actually been together over 13 years after they met at a movie theater where they both worked back in 2006.
John's Facebook post immediately sent chills down Alex's spine. It began with, so Marie Zos killed me. This is my dying declaration. So this note goes on to list all the grievances Alex had with his wife Marie. And he actually accused her of being mentally abusive towards him, which he alleged had traumatized him to the point that he was writing this Facebook [00:03:00] post to let everyone know that he decided to end his own life.
As soon as Alex reads this post, he feels uneasy and he's well aware of the issues within his sister's marriage. But the issues were not quite the way Shawn was making them out to be in his Facebook post. In fact, it was Shawn who had been mercilessly abusing, threatening, and her harassing Marie, not the other way around.
After reading this post, Alex immediately tries to get in touch with his family. Marie had been living with their mom since filing for divorce from Sean just one month earlier. So Alex got on the phone and tried calling his mom's boyfriend named Jose. At first, Jose didn't answer the phone, but eventually Alex was able to get in touch with him.
When Alex asked Jose if everything was all right, Jose told him no, everything was not okay. Sean VARs was born on January 21st, 1985 in Homer, Alaska, but eventually he moved to Nashville and that's where he met [00:04:00] Marie while working at the same movie theater she did. We believe Marie was a senior in high school at this time, and Sean May have already graduated, but he wasn't that much older than her.
Marie graduated from high school in 2006 and then went on to Belmont University where she graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Pharmaceutical studies in 2011. In May of 2013, Shawn and Marie got married and settled in Nashville. Shawn worked at Van Rider games while Marie worked on her doctor of pharmacy degree.
In 2015, she finished that degree and she began working at Walgreens as a pharmacist. Later, Marie decided that she wanted to further her education so that she could become a pharmacy manager. She completed a Master's in Business Administration in May of 2020 and continued working for Walgreens as a managing pharmacist.
She loved to help others and she volunteered to assist in vaccinating elderly nursing home residents during the COVID-19 outbreak. A few years after Marie and Shawn met the movie theater, they both worked at, closed down [00:05:00] after a flood and a shooting range was then put in where it used to be. So the couple would sometimes go to this new shooting range and practice shooting together.
As the years went on, it became clear to Marie's family that her relationship with Sean was far from perfect. According to Alex, who as we said was Marie's brother. Sean was manipulative and narcissistic, but he was also very smart. Alex said that Sean wasn't necessarily prone to violent outbursts, but at times he would raise his voice when speaking to Marie, and other times he would speak in a more measured and almost soothing tone.
After years of marriage, Marie and Shawn separated in January, 2021 and a couple of months later, Marie filed for divorce. She cited irreconcilable differences and inappropriate marital conduct. She then went to stay with her mom, Debbie, who lived in Lebanon, Tennessee. That's where Marie was living. On April 12th, the day Sean posted that bone chilling Facebook post indicating that he was going to take his own life.[00:06:00]
Things had not been easy in the months leading up to this day. Marie had been having a lot of problems with Sean since the day she filed for divorce on March 3rd. A few days after she filed, she had made arrangements with Sean to come by and pick up their two dogs. At about 6:30 PM Marie went over to get the dogs, but then a short time later, some of Marie's coworkers at Walgreens started getting these strange text messages from Marie's phone.
The messages said things that indicated that Marie had been having an inappropriate relationship with one of the other employees. These messages were really bizarre and random. So the person who got these messages actually called Marie's mom, Debbie to see if she knew what was going on. When Debbie hears about this, she tells Alex, who then tries calling his sister multiple times before finally getting an answer.
When Marie finally picks up, she tells Alex that she was still with Sean and that she would be leaving shortly. Alex then asked her about the text, but Marie seemed really confused and then she just rushed to get [00:07:00] off the phone. Alex calls back 10 minutes later and Marie told him she was about to leave.
It wasn't until Marie called her mom Debbie at about 8:25 PM that anyone knew what really happened. When Marie showed up to the house that evening to pick up the dogs, Shawn started an argument with her right away and refused to let her inside the house. Marie not wanting to further agitate, Shawn attempted to just leave, but Shawn grabbed her under the armpits and picked her up and carried her to the front porch and then told her that he wants to work things out.
He then continues to escalate the situation further, grabbing Marie around the neck and strangling her until she passes out. Marie woke up on the floor inside the house. She had no idea how long she had been unconscious, but she knew that Sean was trying to take away her phone and her keys. Marie stood up, but Sean put her into a different room.
According to Marie, Shawn's mother was actually there at the house and he told her to take the dogs and leave, and she did. [00:08:00] Leaving Shawn alone there with Marie. Marie says that Shawn then grabbed a gun, cocked it, and put it at her head. And we have so much more to get into this story after a quick break to hear a word from this week's sponsors.
So before the break, we were just getting into some of the abusive incidents that Marie had suffered at the hands of her soon to be ex-husband Sean. Marie had filed for divorce in early March of 2021, and within three days, Shawn attacked her when she went to pick up their dogs from him. Shawn's own mother was at the house when he began assaulting Marie, and at one point he told his mom to take the dogs and leave, so she did leaving Sean and Marie alone in the house.
Shawn pulled a gun and pointed it at Marie's head and threatened to shoot her. Sean then demanded that Marie hand over her phone, which he used to send pre-saved text messages to Marie's friends. These messages talked about how she didn't want to be friends with them anymore because she needed space to work on her relationship with Sean.
He also sent those messages to the [00:09:00] Walgreens employees about Marie allegedly having an affair with an employee there. Marie wrote out the details of this terrifying attack in a request for an order of protection. Later, she said that Sean hit her in the face that night and told her she deserved all of this.
He pointed the gun at her while she pleaded with him not to hurt her. Marie said that Sean even put the gun in his own mouth for a moment, but then he took it out and said he just didn't know what to do. He admitted that his plan had been to kill Marie and then himself, which is why he already had those text messages written out.
Sean told Marie that he was going to kill her friends too because he said she deserved it, and he said that if she went to the police, he would shoot her friends and family, and he had a list of all their names and addresses. Marie said that she talked to Sean for an hour and a half, and eventually he let her go after she promised not to tell anybody about what happened.
Once [00:10:00] Marie was safely outta the house, she immediately called her mom, who then called the police while Marie drove back towards her mom's house. Wow. At 8 31 that evening, Marie's brother Alex, called the Lebanon Police Department and asked them to send a cruiser to Debbie's house so they could speak to Marie.
At 8:45 PM Marie and the Lebanon police show up at Debbie's house and took an initial report and some photos of Marie. Lebanon police called the Metro Nashville Police to file the report over the phone, but they were told that Marie had to file the report in person, which is wild to me that one police station is telling another police station, right?
They have to do anything when it comes to this. So at 9:30 PM Marie, Alex, Debbie, and Debbie's boyfriend Jose, all drove down to the Metro Nashville Police Department to file this. They called the non-emergency line when they got there and were told that an officer would be there soon to file a report with when no one arrived.
They called back 10 minutes later and said they were concerned about Sean's mental state [00:11:00] because he had threatened to kill himself and Marie's family. At 10:00 PM an officer still had not shown up. This is somebody who's already choked this woman, right? She abused her unconscious exactly. Threatens to kill her.
Threatens to kill everyone he know. She knows. And no one seems to be taking this very seriously. So then the family calls to find out how long it's going to be, and they were told that a shift change was happening and that if they went to a different police station it would be quicker. But when they arrived at the other station, all the doors were locked and the parking lot was completely empty.
Oh, this would be so frustrating, right? And how fearful this would be this entire time. And you're just like going through the steps that they're telling you to do and no one's helping you. So once again, the family called the police and they were told to wait. The dispatcher said they were working on getting someone out to them, but there was nobody in the precinct at that moment.
The dispatcher said, quote, what's going to happen is a patrol car is going [00:12:00] to have to free up from whatever they're doing and come, but they do have to take those life-threatening emergencies. First quote, Marie and Debbie were baffled by this because they couldn't understand how Marie's situation. Was not life threatening.
Like this seems to be the definition of a life threatening emergency, right? If someone's literally saying they're going to kill you. Right. And like we said, how frustrating is that to be in that situation and being literally scared for your life and having. You know, the dispatcher basically saying like, nah, it's not that big of a deal.
Like some somebody will get to you whenever they get to you. Like that's just, oh my gosh. Right. That would just be very upsetting. According to NPR, experts say that strangulation and threats with a gun are the two biggest warning signs that domestic violence could become lethal. The former director of the Domestic Violence Assessment Center, Robert Holford, said that quote, domestic violence offenders are not all the same.
They pose different levels of risk. Even if different offenders are charged with the same crime, they still pose [00:13:00] different levels of risk. There's a whole range of offenders, not any real classifications. And that of course makes sense because we know that there are all types of abuse are not exactly the same, right?
There are the levels of severity and the levels of risk, as he said, are definitely different. So it does, uh, make it more difficult to tell how or if a particular offender is actually going to escalate the violence against their victim. The Shelby County Chief Domestic Violence Prosecutor pointed out how hard it is to predict because some violent offenders never escalate to murder while others go from pushing and shoving and vandalism straight to murder.
The only exception is when an offender chokes a victim and they survive. Research has shown that once a perpetrator tries to strangle someone, they are 750% more likely to kill them with a gun later. That is. Insane. 750% more likely to kill them with a gun later. I mean, to me that almost reads as almost certainly if they can, they're [00:14:00] going to, you know what I mean?
Absolutely right. That statistic is absolutely frightening and it's, I mean, I think if nothing else you get from this episode, that statistic is one thing because it stands out. It stands out, and people do need to be aware. Absolutely. So when it comes to strangulation, it is a clear sign of what is likely to come next.
Robert Holford said that because of the varying levels of risk, the treatment needs to be different and individualized, and there needs to be programs in place so that the court can make informed decisions about how to proceed with a particular offender. But it's clear that there is still a long way to go.
In 2020, there were 69,385 reported cases of domestic violence in Tennessee alone, including 90 murders. This ranks Tennessee Number nine in the nation when it comes to the rate that men kill women. So the more time that passed without an officer showing up to take the report from Marie and her family, the more frustrated they all became.
Her brother, Alex, continued to [00:15:00] call the police and at one point he told the dispatcher that he was really trying to be appreciative and to just wait as long as possible, but his sister had been choked to the point of passing out, and then her husband threatened to shoot her and himself, and Alex said quote, so my patience is gone.
As you can imagine, oh my gosh, right at 11:30 PM Marie finally saw an officer pull into the parking lot and flagged him down, and the family was finally able to make a report. Marie was taken to the family safety Center where she was interviewed. The officer that took her statement noted that Marie had marks on her neck consistent with strangulation, and that she also had a chipped tooth, which she believes occurred when she passed out.
At this point, it had been over five hours since the attack. The Metro Nashville police captain later said that this timeframe was completely unacceptable for a response time for a victim, which thank you for noticing. Wow. Yeah. After Marie gave her statement, Sean was charged with felony [00:16:00] aggravated assault and misdemeanor false imprisonment.
They went to arrest him, but you'll never believe this. He was nowhere to be found. So then a warrant was issued for his arrest. Marie was in fear for her own safety, so she also went immediately and filed for an order of protection through the Davidson County Sheriff's Office. She told the police that she was scared Shawn was gonna carry out his plan to murder her and her family.
She said he had a gun and she believed he was willing to use it. On the paperwork, Marie specifically marked the box that said, please order the respondent not to have possess by, receive, use, or in any other way, get any firearm. So after this order of protection request was filed. The deputy chief of civil warrants called Sean and told him that he had two options.
Number one, he could come to the station to be served the papers, or number two deputies could come to his house and serve him. Sean agreed to come to the sheriff's office. He ended up walking [00:17:00] into the office, picking up the paperwork, and walking back out. Oh my gosh. I mean just right. There's just absolutely.
Just to be able to walk in and walk out, knowing what you're picking up is just wild. So at this time, the Davidson County Sheriff's Office didn't know that Sean actually had those warrants out for assault and false imprisonment. According to News Channel five, Nashville is actually one of the only places where the sheriff's office doesn't handle arresting criminals.
They mainly handle civil cases. The police department handle criminal cases, and there's no policy in place that requires the two departments to coordinate on warrants. So even if the sheriff's office knew about the warrants, they wouldn't have been able to detain him anyway. That blows my mind. Uh, really, I mean, there's so many things in this story where you just think what, like policies that need to be changed and such, but this is one where you just think, oh my gosh.
So of course they didn't check the warrant. They couldn't even arrest him. Right. If [00:18:00] they had seen it, but my goodness, how crazy. Yeah. So Sean remained on the loose for two days. Marie ended up finding out that Shawn was at his mom's house because she had been texting with his mom about their dogs, and at some point Shawn's mom mentioned that he was with her.
So Marie alerted the police to Shawn's whereabouts, and they were able to go and arrest him there. After his arrest, Marie called the police station just to make sure they had her correct contact information because she wanted to be notified When Shawn was released from jail, she was really concerned about this because she had actually previously requested to be notified when Shawn was served the papers and when he was arrested.
But nobody had notified her of either of those things. Yeah, and when she was, you know, she asked why she wasn't notified. She was told that she needed to contact other offices about this. On March 11th, just three hours after his arrest, Sean bonded out of jail for $3,000. As a condition of his [00:19:00] release, he was forbidden from contacting Marie and from having access to his guns, and his criminal court date was scheduled for July.
Sean should have never been released after only six total hours in custody. There actually is a law in Tennessee that requires domestic violence suspects to spend at least 12 hours in jail before being able to leave on bond. So this was a mistake on the part of the police, but not as big as the next mistake, which was once again, failing to notify Marie that Sean was being released from jail that same day.
Furthermore, nobody ever checked to see whether or not Shawn stopped having access to firearms. Tennessee code gives officers the ability to confiscate weapons used by, or threatened to be used by the abuser if there's probable cause, but it's up for debate which agencies exactly are supposed to be doing the removing of the firearms from a domestic violence Defendant's possession according to Becky Bullard with the [00:20:00] Nashville Office of Family Safety.
This is a huge gaping hole of issues. WPLN reported that more than a third of perpetrators in domestic violence, homicides from 2018 to 2020 should not have had access to a gun. One of the biggest issues in the state of Tennessee is that if a person has been ordered to turn over their guns, they have actually a lot of options.
They can give the guns to a licensed firearm dealer. They can give them to law enforcement, or for reasons that I really do not understand, they are allowed to give them over to a friend or a relative. That seems like the absolute worst option. You might as well just say, why don't you put it in your front seat?
Just keep it there. Right, exactly. And, and it, it seems like one of those things where it's like common sense, right? Like if somebody is threatening to use a gun, why would you allow them to give that weapon to somebody who they can easily get it back from? Exactly. That doesn't make any sense. That makes no sense.
It should be law enforcement. Period, right? That's it. That that's where the end of the line is, right? [00:21:00] So in Sean's case, he claimed that he would give his guns to his father, but there's no documentation of that ever happening. On March 22nd, Sean and Marie had their order of protection hearing, but Sean didn't show up.
Instead, his attorney attended the hearing for him and his attorney said that he had dispossessed himself of all firearms. But again, nobody ever checked to make sure that was actually true. My gosh, three weeks later, Sean had a total breakdown. He logged into Facebook and drafted out a long post, which is the one we've mentioned a few times.
The full post is pretty long, but in part it read quote. So Marie Versos killed me. She lied to me and destroyed me. This is my dying declaration. She broke into our formerly shared home and tried to grab her gun after making me feel incredibly threatened. It escalated things to a terrible confrontation.
She had an emotional affair at the very least, with one of her employees who was almost a decade younger than her, [00:22:00] and became completely infatuated with her lying to me about where she was spending the night and who she was with. She gaslit me for months about this affair and her communication with her mistress.
He goes on to say quote, she stole opiates from her work for me, but not at my request. I actually heavily chastised her for it and told her never to do it again. She took my muscle relaxers without my permission so that she could sleep better. End quote. Okay, so there's too much to unpack in that. Really like all lies clearly, right?
All trying to make him the victim and her, you know. Seemed like a villain. The monster. Yeah, exactly. But then this whole thing about these opiates, like she's stealing it for him, but yet she's taking his muscle relaxers. Why wouldn't she just steal muscle relaxers for herself? For herself? Right. That doesn't make a lick of sense.
He also referenced Marie's family and said terrible things about them, including that they could not be trusted in any way. Sean claimed he could no longer [00:23:00] live with the quote, unquote abuse Marie was putting him through and that he couldn't handle having his abuser go free quote, because mental abuse isn't illegal.
He also said, quote, I didn't snap and go after random people. I went after the person who tried to kill me and when she failed at driving me to suicide, tried to destroy my life in every other meaningful way. It is my sincere opinion that this was justice, but I paid for my justice with my life. I'm so sorry I failed so many of you.
My mom has my suicide note if you care. She didn't know this was coming. No one did, but she will know by now if you don't. I understand. May you all find the peace and happiness. I was denied. When Marie's brother Alex sees his post, he immediately knew that it was his suicide note and he became immediately concerned for Marie's safety as well.
When Alex was finally able to get in touch with Jose, who was his mom, Debbie's boyfriend, he learned that things were not okay at all. We have still more to get into after one last break to hear a word from this week's [00:24:00] sponsors. So before the break, we were talking about this very lengthy Facebook post that Sean Zos has written out and it appears to be a suicide note.
And Marie's brother Alex has seen this post and became very concerned because he knows of the lengthy history between his sister, Marie and Sean. So on the morning of April 12th, Sean left his house with a shotgun and a handgun, as well as a taser, some duck. Tape, gasoline, zip ties, and battery acid. He drove a rental car to Debbie's house where Marie was staying and parked it across the street for 45 minutes.
Shawn waited outside the house before he saw Marie and Debbie. It was during that 45 minute period that Shawn was writing that Facebook post. Shortly before 8:00 AM Marie stepped outside of the house to go to work. She saw Shawn. She ran back inside and locked the door, but Shawn followed behind her with zip ties, the taser and his guns.
It is Alex's belief that [00:25:00] Shawn originally planned to kidnap Marie before killing her, but things didn't go as planned While Sean was trying to break in through the front door, Debbie and Marie called 9 1 1 and grabbed their own guns for protection. Sean made his way to the back of the house and broke through the back door.
So Debbie and Marie ran out the front door and hid between the houses in the neighborhood. Shawn went outside and hunted these women down, shooting Debbie in the back, first killing her instantly after her mom had been shot. Marie fired shots back at Shawn while yelling for the neighbors to stay inside their homes.
Marie managed to hit Shawn three times, but none were fatal or even incapacitating. Shawn was still actively attacking her. Sadly, Shawn was able to fire the shotgun once more, killing Marie after he shot both women. Sean went back to the rental car and posted that note to Facebook. At this point, he was suffering badly from three gunshot wounds, and he was severely [00:26:00] injured.
He started to drive towards his own house, but he stopped about a mile away and used one of his guns to take his own life. When the police were notified about the shooting at Debbie's house, they started a manhunt for Sean and issued an alert for area residents to stay inside with their doors locked until they located him.
A short time later they found Sean's car on the side of the road with his body inside. When news of Marie and Debbie's murders came out, Marie's divorce attorney said that Marie quote had done what everyone says is the right thing to do. Sadly, she couldn't escape the violence. The attorney statement continued.
We are devastated that the order of protection that our client obtained was not enough to keep she and her mother from being the latest victims of domestic violence against women in Tennessee. Their deaths will serve as a grim reminder that an order of protection alone is not the solution to the problem of domestic violence, and we hope this tragedy will result in a renewed effort on the part of our lawmakers to address it as systemic issues related to protection of domestic [00:27:00] assault victims and the prosecution of their abusers.
In the wake of his mom and sister's deaths, Alex set out to figure out exactly what happened to them. He later spoke before Congress and said, I said about the process of trying to understand what, if anything could have been done to save them. I wanted to make sure that no one, no family had to endure what we had to go through.
Alex actually put together a timeline of everything leading up to the murders. His timeline was actually a huge help to the research for this episode. Alex said that in many ways Marie really had the odds in her favor compared to many other victims of domestic violence. Marie had a safe place to stay.
She had family nearby to advocate for her and the time and resources to navigate Nashville's entire system. Alex wonders who the system is working for. If it didn't work for someone like Marie. And I have chills even saying that because I just got goosebumps too. To even be able to look at it like that and say if anybody, she, she was able to stay [00:28:00] with her family members.
Her family knew about the abuse, so it wasn't, she had help and support, which is something so many don't have. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. That's, that's, that's huge. And she had all that and still wasn't able to, something is broken there. So Alex took his research into the murders to heart, and he retraced everything.
What he found were many irregularities, loopholes, and failures in the system that led to Marie and Debbie's deaths. Alex told news Channel five that it was hard to find even one element that went right. He told NPR that during his personal investigation into what happened. He went through Marie's computer and he ended up finding out that she had actually been documenting Sean's abuse and all the things she'd been doing to try and get away from him.
She left notes to herself. She saved screenshots of text messages from Sean and had audio recordings of some of their fights and of threats that Sean made against her. For example, in one recording, Sean told Marie that he was going to make their divorce as awful as [00:29:00] possible. Another recording taken during the March 7th attack captured Marie shouting, stop.
Don't put your hands on me. I can't imagine Alex finding these things. Um, after. You know, that his mom and sister were shot. Right. And how hard it would be to have to find, you know, this documentation of the abuse that had been taking place. Yeah. And especially hearing, you know, arguments and hearing your sister mm-hmm.
Saying things like that, like. Absolutely the most heartbreaking thing, I think, especially after somebody has been murdered. You know, to have to hear that after the fact is just so hard. So, Ruth Glenn of the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence told NPR that domestic violence victims across the nation face similar barriers to what Marie faced.
Glen said, quote, our systems are not set up as properly as they could be to address the unique needs of every domestic violence victim. Glen said, to protect the victims, there needs to be a coordinated response, but this response would involve so many separate [00:30:00] agencies that just don't work together.
This creates a safety net with too many holes in. Glenn said that as Marie's case illustrates, the safety net full of holes is a problem because domestic violence abusers are, quote, incredibly determined. She said, quote, when they decide that something bad is going to happen, it's almost impossible to stop them.
They will cut off a GPS. They will go put a false record to get a gun. They will sit in the dark for two hours. The list goes on and on end quote. Alex believes that at the end of the day, Shawn was going to kill Marie no matter what, but that there are things that could have been in place to make it a lot harder for him.
The court could have ordered Shawn to wear a GPS tracker, for example. This would be a simple step that would've made it so that the police could see his location before he committed a double murder. Alex actually asked the DA's office why they didn't use a tracker, and they said. They hadn't seen GPS trackers used in domestic violence cases before.
Okay. But it still seems like, I mean, but why couldn't [00:31:00] you still? I mean, it doesn't, right? Well, you know what that, I mean, like, not to go back too far, but when, when police were able to send out an alert to everyone once Marie and her mom had been killed, like they were able to alert everyone, right? It should be that simple, right?
If there's something it. He has a GPS thing on and he's cut it off. It should be that simple to send Murray an alert or whatever, right? There should be something. There's, we have the technology. Absolutely we can do it. Yeah. So Alex said that if his mom and sister were still alive, they would try and find a way to fight for changes so that what happened to them would never happen to anybody else.
Alex worked with Kathy Walsh from the Tennessee Coalition to End Domestic Violence to draft four bills sponsored by legislators to protect victims in the future. Sadly, only one of the bills passed due to concerns about expenses and implementation. The act that did pass Senate Bill 27 46, uh, requires a sheriff, a deputy sheriff, or a constable serving an order of protection.[00:32:00]
Or ex parte order of protection to make reasonable efforts prior to or at the time of service to determine whether the person being served has an outstanding criminal warrant. One of the bills that did not pass would have required GPS monitoring for people charged with domestic violence offenses.
Alex told NPR that passing only one of the bills just wasn't enough. He said quote for them, they view it as one thing that went wrong with their agency, but coupled together there are like eight things that went wrong for this person that is dealing with the government to try and get the help they needed.
Alex said he will return to Tennessee State Capital as many times as it takes to close the gaps that Marie fell through. So we have some resources to share with you guys. The first being Kimberly Page, a crisis counselor at the Family Safety Center in Nashville told News channel five, that statistics show that when a victim leaves, they often find themselves in more danger than before.
She said quote, the earlier they reach out. The more opportunities there are to provide services in [00:33:00] fear can keep some people from reaching out, but many resources can create a plan to help victims leave. She also said all of our services are free and confidential, so someone doesn't have to be involved with the police to receive our services.
If they're interested in our services, but not in prosecution, we still provide services. You can find more information about the Family Safety Center at. OS nashville.gov/family Safety center and we will have that linked in the show notes. And if you aren't in the Nashville area and you need help finding a similar resource to the Family Safety Center, we can help find those for you.
You can also call the Nationwide Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE. That's 1 807 9 9 7 2 3 3. Or you can chat at the hotline. Or text start to 8, 8, 7, 8, 8. Again, text start to 8, 8, 7, 8, 8. All three of these are 24 7. [00:34:00] They're free and they're confidential. And of course there's many other resources on the domestic violence hotline website.
I also saw this quote, uh, from Alex that I just wanted to add here at the end, and he said, quote, I get notifications for banking codes and other stuff. Could there have been a text notification to let domestic violence victims know their accusers have been arrested, which I feel like that's what it all comes down to.
Had Marie known that day that Alex was just, was released and could possibly be, be sitting outside of her house, right? She could have been prepared. Clearly, she knew how to take a shot. They had practiced shooting before she had a gun. She had all those things, but to just walk outside your house and have no idea that was coming, right.
She had no chance. Not even knowing that he had been released from jail the same day that he went there. Like that's just, I do find that unacceptable and the fact that she called and said, I want to make sure you have my correct information because it's really important for me to know, you know, where he is Absolutely.
And what the status is. [00:35:00] And the fact that she didn't, was never notified about anything that was going on, um, with his arrests or with anything like it's. Right. It's very sad and definitely unacceptable. I think we definitely need to fix that. Yeah. I wanna look into stuff in Florida to start here since that's where we are, and to see if there's anything we can help with, because just seeing how many things here went absolutely awry and just only one of these things needed to work out.
Obviously he was determined to kill her, but like, uh, Alex was saying. It should have been a lot harder. Right? He shouldn't have had carte blanche to just walk in and, you know, get, get paperwork and leave with his warrants and just leave and nobody has any idea where he is. That's absolutely unacceptable, as you were saying.
So just a few months after this episode in March of 2024, Metro Nashville's Office of Family Safety, that's a mouthful, released a report that took a deep look at the tragic murders of Marie and Debbie. [00:36:00] As you've just heard this heartbreaking story of how really this system should have protected them.
Debbie and Marie were doing everything right, but ultimately the things that were in place at that time failed them. Of course, this is still such an important issue today, and this particular case was reviewed by the Nashville Domestic Abuse Death Review team, or as they go by. D-A-D-R-T, and this is part of the Office of Family Safety.
So while the report doesn't specifically name Marie and Debbie, it's pretty clear that they are talking about their murders. The report really paints a picture of how the victims faced so many unnecessary barriers as they tried to escape and find justice. And this report highlighted four key areas that contributed to Marie's risk and the lack of support that she and her family received leading up to the murders.
The first one is a firearm dispossession. So Sean, who was Marie's abuser, had been arrested on felony domestic violence charges, and by law [00:37:00] he should not have had access to a gun, but somehow he still did. And even though he was under, you know, bond conditions and a court order, that should have stopped him from possessing one, he still had one.
And that's a huge issue. Right. And then of course there's strangulation awareness about a month before the murder suicide. Marie was strangled unconscious by Sean and Mandy. You and I have talked about this a million times on this show because it always is just. Such a sobering statistic, you're just like, wow, this one really hits home.
I have to double check it every time because when we get to the percentage, I still can't believe what it is. But we know that strangulation is one of the highest risk indicators for future homicide. So authorities really should have been paying attention to that, knowing that Sean had tried to strangle Marie in the past, and of course it's incredibly.
Incredibly important to recognize the seriousness of this kind of violence specifically. And if someone was to tell you that their partner had strangled them or [00:38:00] attempted to strangle them, they need to know this statistic that we were just talking about, that strangulation makes you 750% more likely to be murdered when a gun is present in the home, which as we know, and you just said Mandy, Sean somehow still had access to.
Then there's the third area that D-A-D-R-T highlighted, and that is high risk offender accountability. And that ties into the use of GPS monitoring. Marie had actually taken, uh, this questionnaire, this lethality assessment protocol, and she answered yes. To eight out of 11 of the questions on this assessment.
And this is a tool that is meant to gauge how at risk someone actually is. So Marie's answers really showed that she was at a very, very high risk of harm, and there were multiple opportunities for this GPS monitoring to be done on Sean. And that could have helped hold him accountable, but for whatever reason, those steps were not taken and that was not done.
The fourth and final one is coercive control and isolation. [00:39:00] Sean's abusive behavior, really isolated Marie from any real support network. And of course, this type of isolation is such a dangerous part of domestic violence, especially as the abuse escalates. I can't even begin to count how many times we've told stories where.
A family member is being abused and the partner takes them and they move across the country, um, you know, or makes them quit their job. So then anyone that they would have contact with. Are no longer in their lives, they have no access to that person. And so the D-A-D-R-T made some recommendations based on their findings.
And honestly, these all seem like no-brainers. The first one is that magistrate should really take a good look at that lethality assessment before deciding on bond conditions. Like what is the point of having an assessment if you're not? Looking at that for what could potentially happen in the future.
It's useful, right? Or using it as a guide to determine. The next steps that need to be taken to [00:40:00] protect everyone involved. Yes, absolutely. So of course, had they done this at the time, this could have helped them see the real risk of releasing offenders like Sean. They also recommended firearm status hearings, which would make sure that offenders still don't have access to guns after their arrest.
'cause there's one thing we know about offenders, it's that they're not. Going to necessarily follow the law. So you need to do this follow up to make sure. And another key recommendation, and I think this one is so big, was that GPS monitoring should be a standard for high risk offenders. It's something judges could actually do, but.
At this point, they just didn't. And that's where Alex, the family member we've mentioned in the story, stepped in. So in July of 2024, Alex had been working on a law that was finally passed in Tennessee, and this was the Debbie and Marie Domestic Violence Protection Act. It now requires, not just recommends, but actually bylaw makes it a requirement that [00:41:00] GPS monitoring is done on the most violent domestic offenders.
And this, of course, is absolutely huge. As you were saying, not only does this provide a real. Sense of security to the victims and to their families. But it also provides a meaningful way to actually keep track of people who are dangerous, right? So it really is the first law in the US of its kind, and it can and will save lives.
So the way it works with the GPS tracking is victims can get the alerts on their phones if an offender violates an order of protection. So if. The offender enters a restricted area or goes too close to the victim's home, it will send some kind of alert to let them know that this person is in the area and to alert the authorities.
It's especially just to be on your guard and keep a lookout, right, and this kind of technology. Literally could save someone's life. It gives them a heads up that they would not have normally had, and it gives them a chance to get away or to take action when they are in immediate danger. It's so unbelievable to me that we just sent Ka Perry to the flippant universe or to space.
[00:42:00] Right. And this isn't something like, of course, the person who this person is trying to attack should be the first person to know, right? Don't tell their parole officer. Let the person give the person a fighting chance to get out of there. We have the technology. It enrages me, right, that this wasn't done before, but good for Alex for doing this.
And so when this law was passed, Alex shared this on social media. In spite of my grief, I've pushed forward because I believe this measure would've added an additional shield of protection for my mom and my sister. While this legislative milestone is bittersweet without them, I'm hopeful this bill will save lives.
So, of course. The bill doesn't bring Marie and Debbie back, but that really is a very powerful statement from Alex. And of course it's such a bittersweet victory, right? That they've lost their mom and sister in a way that seemed totally predictable and they fought every step to not have not become a victim of this guy.
It's terribly sad. Yeah, it's, it's a [00:43:00] huge injustice. It's very heartbreaking. Absolutely. But it's, this law is something that could absolutely help so many people in the future. For sure. And so this also serves as a great reminder that if you or someone you know are experiencing domestic violence, there is help available and you are never alone and don't have to go through it alone.
You can always reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline by calling 1-800-799-SAFE. That's 1 807 9 9. 7, 2, 3, 3. You can also visit the hotline.org or text the word start to 8, 8, 7, 8 8. And there's not often that we get to do these stories and share and have this kind of amazing update. And I am so hopeful that this will become a national law and not just a state law, because it really does seem like we could prevent, so.
Much of this, if victims just had a chance to Yes, to have the knowledge. Yes. It, oh, it makes me crazy. But yeah, I think, [00:44:00] yeah, it is one of those things too. Uh, you know that doing the podcast as many years as we have now, we have the opportunity, you know, as time has passed, we've had the opportunity. For updates to even occur.
Yeah. And that's always, like you said, so cool to see, you know, to have an update like this where something has been done in the wake of a, a terrible tragedy and you know, we always love to see that. We always love to see progress being made. Yeah, absolutely. Okay guys, thank you so much for listening to the update this week.
We will see you guys next week. Same time, same place. New story. New thing. Have a great week. Bye.
