The Body in the Basement: The Murder of James Carroll

A House of Horrors in Old Louisville

In the historic neighborhood of Old Louisville, Kentucky, known for its stunning Victorian architecture, a 911 call about a domestic dispute led police to the home of Jeffrey Mundt and his partner, Joseph Banis. What began as a routine check quickly escalated when officers discovered a scene of unimaginable horror. In the basement, buried beneath the floor, was a sealed, airtight container. Inside, they found the body of 46-year-old James “Jamie” Carroll, a man who had been missing for weeks. He had been brutally stabbed and shot.

The investigation immediately focused on the two men who lived in the house. Jeffrey Mundt, a former nurse with a history of drug use, and Joseph Banis, his younger lover, were taken into custody. As they were interrogated, two conflicting stories emerged, each man painting the other as the monster responsible for Jamie’s death. The case that unfolded was a dark and twisted tale of a love triangle gone horribly wrong, entangled with meth addiction, counterfeit money, and deep-seated jealousy.

A Tangled Web of Lies and Betrayal

James Carroll had been a friend of the couple, and the three were involved in a complex and volatile relationship. According to prosecutors, the motive for the murder was a mix of greed and passion. Jeffrey and Joseph had allegedly planned to rob Jamie of his drugs and money. When the plan went awry, a violent confrontation erupted. Joseph claimed that Jeffrey was the aggressor, stabbing and shooting Jamie in a fit of rage. Jeffrey, however, insisted that Joseph was the killer, and that he had only helped cover up the crime out of fear.

The trial became a he-said, he-said battle, forcing the jury to decide which of the two men was telling the truth—or if both were lying. With no other witnesses, the case hinged on their contradictory testimonies and the chilling physical evidence found in the basement. The story of James Carroll’s murder serves as a grim reminder that sometimes the most terrifying monsters are the people we invite into our homes.

Transcript:

James Carroll MELISSA

Melissa: [00:00:00] When police kicked in the door of a Victorian home in Louisville, they thought they were responding to a domestic dispute, what they found instead was a nightmare. Inside an airtight, rubber made container in the basement, they found the body of a man who'd been stabbed, shot And buried beneath the floor. The case that followed would unravel a twisted story of meth, counterfeit cash, and two lovers

who couldn't stop blaming each other for murder. 

Marker

Mandy: Hey guys, and welcome to the Moms and Mysteries podcast, a True Crime podcast featuring myself, Mandy, and my dear friend Melissa. Hi, Melissa. 

Melissa: Hi Mandy. How are you? 

Mandy: I am doing well. How are you doing this week?

Melissa: Good. It's uh, weird. We're recording kind of evening time. We haven't done this in a while. 

Mandy: I know, I know. But I feel like it tracks for this time of year when 

there is no concept of time, there are no rules. You just get it in where you can when it comes to pretty much everything 

in life, uh, when you're at this stage of December.

Melissa: It's a lot of special events. Kids have to be [00:01:00] here at certain times and wear this at certain places and all that. So yeah, I'm just happy to be here 

Mandy: Yeah, same, same. I, uh, took my boys for haircut after school today and I just, I feel like everything just takes longer than I anticipate it's going to. 'cause I picked my kids up at three 

o'clock, so I was thinking, surely I'm gonna be home easy by four 30. No way. It's gonna take any longer 

than that. 

And, uh, yeah, we weren't home until like five 30, so it, it 

was a long run this afternoon.

Yes.

Melissa: crazy. Do you, is it like a We go to Great Clips. Um, my kids go to Great Clips, so we have the Great Clips app and we're always first in line 'cause all the old people that go

there don't use it. And um, so it's pretty fast for us. 

Mandy: No. So actually I can, this is perfect because I had just been wanting to rant about this and I can't believe I 

have the perfect opportunity and a platform to do it right now.

Um, no. So they go to a place that my older son who is 16, uh, picked. [00:02:00] Based on purely the fact that some of his friends get their 

haircut at this place.

It's a barbershop and, um, they like the haircut. Well, my son gets the typical, uh, teenage boy haircut right now. You know, short on the sides, long on top. All in your eyes hanging shaggy and 

messy and everything. Yes, but we don't have cur, they don't 

have curly hair, they have straight hair. So it's just more, it, it.

It's cute. but my son insists that this is the only place he can get the haircut. I've 

tried explaining that every barber knows how to do this 

haircut, but they don't wanna listen to me. but no. But this one that they go to, um, consistently complains about my kids' hair every single time. Talks about how, how thick their hair is, how hard it is to cut it, how like they need 

to come in more.

Yes. And so I, uh, today, like I, I told my husband, I was like, I almost told the guy like. You know, forget it. Like I'll take my money elsewhere because he cut my younger son's hair first and afterwards he was going on about how he just got a [00:03:00] workout in and it was so much hair and now he barely even wants to cut the other one's hair.

And I almost said, well then don't, I will take them somewhere else. 

Um, so maybe we'll try great clips 

Melissa: We go to a great clips that's like 45 minutes from my house because they have two people that are really, really patient with my son. And so we, I have, I go into it with a different attitude, which has to be like. Anybody that wants to cut his hair, I will be fine. You can complain. You can slap me. I don't care what happens.

I'll give you a good tip because I know he can

be a little, a little difficult, so I definitely won't be going to your 

Mandy: No. 

Melissa: That sounds like it would be a nightmare. Yeah. 

my son needs to get a haircut and Great Clips is looking even better now.

Mandy: Yeah. I mean, I guess all barbers are not created equal. That, I mean, but that was literally, that's the question in my 

head. I'm like, aren't you a barber? I'm like, are you a barber or not? Because that's what I'm literally paying you to do what I 

need done, which is cut hair, which I thought is what you did.

Melissa: Yeah, I thought you liked it

somewhat. Yeah. That's crazy. [00:04:00] 

Mandy: Yeah.

So we are going to get into the story this week. Full disclosure, this one is a bit of a wild ride and I would say the concepts in this episode are probably more mature and maybe this isn't the episode that you wanna have on with the kids in the car. 

Melissa: Yeah. 

We have to say the word SEXA lot. 

Mandy: Yes, for sure. So

we'll get right into it now that we've given you kind of that little fair warning.

So before the detectives started digging through the dirt in an old Louisville basement, there were two men living upstairs in a half finished Victorian home on South fourth Street. To the neighbors, it probably looked like just an ordinary fixer upper situation. There were two guys restoring an old home in old Louisville.

So inside the house though, it was something else entirely. It was a volatile relationship that was built on sex, drugs, and secrets that neither of the two would be able to keep for long. So let's start with the one who really [00:05:00] looked like he had it all together. His name was Jeffrey Steven Mutt and he was the kind of guy that your parents would really brag about at dinner parties.

He was born on February 28th, 1972 and raised right there in Louisville. And he was a governor's scholar. He graduated from Atherton High and he earned a scholarship to Indiana University Bloomington.

He joined Phi Beta Kappa and got his degree in computer science and then landed a consulting job in Washington, DC By the mid nineties, he had a solid resume and a clean record. He really didn't even have so much as a speeding ticket to his name, at least not at this point in his life. In 2004, Jeffrey took a new job at Northwestern University in Chicago, and life really seemed picture perfect.

Him and his longtime boyfriend, mark even bought a huge old Victorian mansion after the 2008 election. They planned to renovate it into a bed and breakfast, but before they could [00:06:00] actually even move in, mark sent a breakup text that would completely wreck Jeffrey's entire world. But he decided to keep the dream alive on his own.

And in 2008, he resigned from Northwestern, joined EMS consulting, and took a position at the University of Louisville, installing a new computer system. By 2009, he had officially moved back home and settled into that half remodeled Victorian house. The only finished room was his bedroom, this is the same bedroom that would later become the center of an investigation.

Melissa: Now if Jeffrey was a straight laced side of the equation, the other man in the story, Joseph Richard BNIs, was the human version of speed. He was born February 4th, 1972 in Falls Church, Virginia, and it bounced from Hawaii to California before landing in

Louisville. How do you go from Hawaii to California to Louisville? 

Mandy: I mean, it just seems like it gets worse and worse and [00:07:00] worse. 

Melissa: No offense to people. If they said Florida, at the end of that, I would've said, how did you, 

end up in 

Mandy: I can't really go roasting a place I act actually have never been. So, 

Melissa: I've heard it's quite 

lovely, but it 

Mandy: To the people of Louisville, it was a bad joke.

Melissa: But on his prison Pen Pal profile, which of course if you watch Love After Lockup, like I sure do. We know that's a real thing. But he described himself as being a lover of fine wines, philosophy, theater, electronic dance, music, travel, fashion, and literature. He said he'd once been a hippie who followed the Grateful Dead, and then he 

evolved into a raver. He designed nightclubs, thrown parties, even claimed to be a semi-pro skier. You could say that. He was a man of many interests and methamphetamines just happened to be one of them. By the mid two thousands, Joseph had traded his glow sticks for mugshots. His first felony conviction was in 1994. In 1998, he was busted for trafficking, meth and [00:08:00] faced 14 years in federal prison. He cooperated with authorities, got seven years, got out, and then got right back into it. Arrest piled up in 2005, 2007 and 2008 for assaulting an EMS officer as well as trafficking and possession. Prosecutors finally labeled him a persistent felony offender and sentenced him to five years. But by September, 2009, Joseph was back on the streets, out on parole Charming as ever, and very much looking for his next big thing. And that next big thing turned out to be Jeffrey Mont, the she met online in November of 2009. And from the outside it looked like opposites attract the clean cut computer guy and the edgy party kid with a record. But really the two clicked very fast. Joseph moved into Jeffrey's old Victorian home not long after they met. And before long, the house wasn't just home to them, it was home to a growing [00:09:00] storm. Their relationship was passionate, drug fueled, and full of control games. Jeffrey, who was recently heartbroken and lonely, really fell hard. Joseph who was newly free and running on meth and adrenaline, wasn't really interested in monogamy or just rules in general. The payer started using meth every day, and of course that means their spending skyrocketed. When Jeffrey lost his job at the university in January of 2010, the money ran out and that's when, of course, counterfeit bills started showing up in the mix. as well as fake cash, real guns, and a whole lot of paranoia Downstairs though the basement stayed cold and unfinished 

upstairs, the walls were closing in and before long, one of them would make a call to nine one one That would turn their private war into a headline

and expose would've been hiding all along.

Mandy: By the time the new year rolled around, Jeffrey and Joseph's lives had gone completely off the rails. [00:10:00] What started as a whirlwind romance full of late nights and new beginnings had turned into something darker, something more desperate. Jeffrey had just lost his job at the university in January of 2010, and suddenly that fancy Schmanzy Victorian house started feeling less like a dream project and more like a financial sinkhole.

But Jeffrey still had his computer skills and Joseph had. His connections, I guess you could 

say. So the two started experimenting with counterfeiting

in really classic breaking bad but dumber fashion. They started producing fake 50 and a hundred dollars bills. They ordered the equipment online, bought credit card readers and encoders, and used printers right there in their bedroom, and they were just printing out fake cash.

wish it worked that I, I wish it actually worked that way.

Melissa: Absolutely. Like, I need money and this is how I do it. 

Mandy: Yeah. So to make the fake money [00:11:00] look

actually real and even more convincing, they used a separate room to strip the ink off of lower denomination bills, like $1 bills, and then they would reprint them as larger ones. Personally, I 

am like. Okay. 

I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna do it. But I think that's actually a smart way.

Melissa: not the worst idea,

but I will say the first thing that pops in my head is, you 

know, when you, um, well, when I used to work at Publix, I don't know what they do now, but you'd have that marker that you mark like larger bills. So if somebody marks this bill, they're gonna figure it

out.

So my paranoia would never, mine isn't even meth induced, but my paranoia

would never allow

me to do this. But I do, I 

do understand

the, I'm not calling it, yeah, the logic. 

Mandy: Yeah. Yes. So of course there were also drugs, mostly meth and a lot of it, uh, Jeffrey, who had never so much as gotten a parking ticket before meeting his new partner, was suddenly using meth daily. He'd gone [00:12:00] from being a clean cut consultant to a paranoid addict in just a few months. Joseph meanwhile was still on parole, but of course he doesn't care.

He's out partying, he's dealing, he's sleeping with whoever he wants, and just really dragging Jeffrey along for the ride. The relationship was getting increasingly volatile and jealousy started creeping in. Joseph was still seeing other men, and one of them was about to become very important in this story.

That man was someone Joseph had met a few months earlier, before Jeffrey even entered the picture. This man was named Jamie, and we'll talk more about him soon, but for now, all you need to know is that Joseph and Jamie were close, maybe too close for Jeffrey's comfort. The more time Joseph spent with Jamie, the more suspicious and controlling Jeffrey became.

But instead of pulling away, the two men just pulled each other further and further down. By spring, their relationship was a tornado of [00:13:00] meth, paranoia, and, bring on more fake bills. So naturally they decided to take this whole show on the road. On April 11th, 2010, Jeffrey and Joseph headed to Chicago for what they claimed was a getaway.

But instead of checking in at the Hyatt Regency and keeping a low profile, they actually got caught passing a counterfeit a hundred dollars bill. The doorman recognized it as being fake and called the police and then pointed them to the two guests who had handed over this fake money. 

Yeah, officers spotted Jeffrey and Joseph riding down the escalator and followed them to a blue 2004 BMW that was parked outside.

When the police stopped them, they found a fully loaded Glock in Joseph's right coat pocket, and he was arrested right there on the spot. Jeffrey wasn't far behind. The doorman identified him as the one who actually handed him the fake bill. At the station, Joseph took the blame. He told police that the counterfeit bill was his, and even admitted that he had [00:14:00] $54,000 more.

Of fake money in his luggage. Police searched his bags and found this fake cash along with two additional firearms that were registered to Jeffrey plus ammo, computer equipment, credit card decoders, and multiple fake IDs. This was the kind of haul that got the secret service involved, but somehow despite.

All of that, both of the men made bail and headed straight back to Louisville, and we're gonna get into what they did next. After a quick break to hear a word from this week's sponsors.

Marker

Melissa: And now back to the episode. 

Marker

Melissa: So a quick recap before we jump back in. Jeffrey and Joseph's picture, perfect. Fixerupper has officially turned into a meth lab. They're also running a counterfeiting operation, and they have this relationship that's on the verge of imploding. They've been busted in Chicago with fake cash, guns, and enough sketchy equipment To make the Secret Service blush. Somehow they make bail and they head back home where things are about to [00:15:00] get a whole lot darker And by the way, in this story, there's three J names, which is killing me 

Mandy: I was thinking that a minute ago. 

Melissa: Oh my gosh. And they're all very like basic J names. If a John comes into this story, I'm done. Um, we'll call it a day. Anyway, that just popped in my head. When they got home, though nothing calmed down. If anything, things just got worse. Between the meth, the money problems and the constant jealousy, their relationship was crumbling fast, and then two months later came the nine one one call That changed everything. It was June 17th, 2010 when Jeffrey called the police in a panic saying that Joseph was trying to kill him. He told the dispatcher the door's locked, but I can hear the wood breaking. He's trying to break down the door with a hammer, and then he said he's got a knife. So two officers, Christopher Pettigo and Trey McKnight rushed to the scene. When they pry to open a side door, Joseph comes [00:16:00] running down the stairs, So police drew their weapons and ordered him to the ground. Upstairs they found Jeffrey hiding in the bedroom. Both men were of course separated and questioned. Joseph was questioned downstairs with Officer McKnight Jeffrey was, uh, questioned upstairs with Officer Pettigo. Joseph didn't have a knife on him, but his backpack had drug paraphernalia, including pipes, hollowed out cigarettes, syringes, hardly. This toolkit of a guy who's trying to get his life back together. So he's arrested for possession and put in the back of McKnight's Cruiser. While being questioned though, Joseph tries to make a deal. He told officers he would give them information about drug dealers, but when that didn't go anywhere, he pulled out the big guns and he told them something that no one was expecting.

He

said, I wanna talk homicide about a body in the basement. 

So. Yeah, I know. So you've gone from like, I know some drug 

dealers to, okay, here's my big gun, a a dead [00:17:00] person in my

basement. Like, why would you, why are you pointing the fingers at yourself now? 

Mandy: Yeah, I don't get that at all Because if you didn't, I mean, I'm glad he said something, but if you, if he didn't, it does make you wonder like

what would've happened.

Melissa: Right. Absolutely. And as strange as this whole thing sounds upstairs, 

Jeffrey's saying the exact same thing. So when Officer Pettigo comes down to tell his partner what Jeffrey just said, McKnight's jaw basically hits the floor. It's an OMG moment because Joseph just told him the same thing practically word for word. So Officer Pettigo went back and read Joseph his Miranda rights before asking about the basement. At this point though, Joseph clams up and says,

I actually don't have anything to say to You about that which Buddy should have tried that a few minutes 

ago. But by then, not at all. But by then, of course, it's too late and the damage was done. So what started as this domestic 

call was now a full blown homicide investigation, detectives [00:18:00] were able to find out that whatever these two men had buried between them, whether emotionally or literally,

was much, much darker than anyone imagined. 

Mandy: Homicide detectives got to the house, the mood immediately shifted. Everything from the drugs to the broken door. Suddenly took a backseat to the thing that both men had just blurted out, which was that there's a body in the basement. Detective Lusher was the one who took charge of Joseph. Once they got him down to the station, he sat him in an interview room, turned on the recorder, and said something like, okay, tell me about this body.

And Joseph didn't hesitate. He said there was a man buried in the old wine cellar under the house, and that no one even knew this man was missing. He told the detective that the man's name was Jamie, and he said Jamie wouldn't be on anyone's radar because he was supposed to be going to prison right around the time that he died.

So anybody that would potentially have been looking for him probably has assumed that he is in prison. [00:19:00] 

So Joseph explained that originally the plan was to rob Jamie. They were gonna take his meth and his money, and he said that Jeffrey was really jealous and wanted to lure Jamie to the house to steal from him.

And when Jamie came over on one rainy night in late November, or possibly early December of 2009, things escalated quickly. According to Joseph, Jamie had brought several ounces of meth and somewhere between 500 to a thousand dollars in cash. So the three of them, Jeffrey, Joseph, and Jamie. Were all in bed together.

They were high and they were apparently watching porn when Joseph said Jeffrey suddenly stabbed Jamie. Jamie tried to fight back, but Jeffrey pulled a 38 revolver and shot him twice through the chest. Joseph told the detectives that he froze in that moment.

He said there was blood everywhere. It was on the walls and the floor and the carpet, and there was broken glass everywhere as well. Jeffrey said that Joseph [00:20:00] acted like he'd done this before. He simply wrapped Jamie's body in linens, then broke his phone in sim card and eventually took his computer to wipe it clean.

Then Joseph said, Jeffrey turned to him and said that if he ever talked, he'd kill him and his family.

Melissa: At first, the detectives weren't sure whether they should believe any of this, but then Detective Lesser ran Jamie's name through a database, and sure enough, there were outstanding bench warrants from mid-December of 2009, right around the time that Joseph said he was killed.

So that part of the story checks out. Detective Lecher called around. He called Lexington Police the jail system. He even called Jamie's mom and she told him the last time she saw her son was Thanksgiving 2009, and she said, he's not missing because she really did think he was in prison. And that's when it all starts to click, because if no one's looking for Jamie, this could actually be true. Meanwhile, back at the house, officers were searching the [00:21:00] basement. It was dark, unfinished, full of debris and dust, but there was one area that stood out, a fresh pile of dirt that just didn't match the rest of the floor. So they start digging and after a few minutes, one of the shovels hit something solid. They dug deeper, and the edge of a blue, 50 gallon rubber made container appeared. When they lifted it, the leg cracked open and the smell hit them instantly. We always hear about the smell of death, and that's exactly what hit them. And inside that box was Jamie's body. He was partially decomposed, hog, tied with Twine, his head cradled in his arm, and he'd been shot in the neck and stabbed multiple times. Three of those wounds were actually fatal. Dr. Donna Stewart, who was the medical examiner later said he didn't die instantly. He would've actually bled out for several minutes. The box weighed 270 pounds. It was sealed with foam and duct tape and packed with lime to help mask the smell. [00:22:00] Jamie's body was found with a metal bracelet, a watch, a silver necklace, two rings, and two

sexual devices. his toxicology showed meth and alcohol in his system. He was five seven, a hundred and twenty eight pounds and had no idea that Thanksgiving

2009 would be the last time anyone saw him alive. 

Mandy: Back at the station detectives went to tell Jeffrey what they had found up to that point. He'd been denying everything 

He told them. He didn't know anything about a body. Didn't 

even know who this guy was that supposedly was down there buried.

When they finally told him that they actually did find someone, he put his hand over his face and pretended to be shocked and started crying.

But when they showed him a picture of Jamie, something actually slipped out. Jeffrey looked at it and said, he doesn't even look remotely familiar. A few minutes later, he accidentally said the name Jamie. And the detectives caught on that immediately because the photo didn't have a [00:23:00] name written on it and they had never told hi the victim's name.

So they, 

you know, he would have no way of knowing that unless he did know this person. So he really had just outed himself. And that's when Jeffrey kind of started to come unraveled. First he said that Joseph had threatened him and that he was scared for his life. Then he agreed to take a polygraph, but as they were getting him prepped for it, he changed course and said he actually didn't wanna do the polygraph.

He just wanted to tell them directly what actually happened. And that's where it gets kind of tricky and very strange, because Jeffrey's story matched Joseph's almost word for word, except the story that each of them told had their roles reversed about who did what. But otherwise, everything was spot on.

So at this point, detectives had two men pointing their fingers at each other and they're each insisting that they're a terrified victim and that the other is a cold-blooded killer. Joseph had already painted Jeffrey as this calculating [00:24:00] mastermind. He was smart, jealous, and methodical.

And as for Jeffrey, he started by saying that Joseph had threatened him for months and he only kept quiet out of fear. He said, quote, everything I said to everybody I feared for my life through this. 

According to Jeffrey, Joseph was the one who was obsessed with drugs and violence and was really the one who had snapped.

Melissa: What was confusing though was that despite their attempts to distance themselves from each other. Both men agreed on almost every factual detail of what happened after Jamie's death. They both said there was a lot of blood. They both said they cleaned it up together and they both said they went to Lowe's to buy a 50 gallon Rubbermaid container duct tape, lime and foam sealant. They both described realizing that rigor Mortis had set in and that Jamie's body could not fit into this container the way they had planned. So they stripped him naked, hogtied him, and used a sledgehammer to break his knees so they could wedge him inside the [00:25:00] container. after that they poured lime over him.

They sealed the lip with foam, wrapped it with duct tape, and spent hours digging a five foot deep hole in the basement. they buried the container, filled the dirt back in and pretended like none of it ever happened. So the difference between their stories really came down to one question, who actually killed Jamie Carroll? Jeffrey claimed that Joseph did it out of rage and jealousy because Joseph had found out that Jeffrey was seeing Jamie and just flew into this violent spiral over it. Joseph, on the other hand said that Jeffrey killed Jamie out of jealousy that Jeffrey couldn't handle the fact that Joseph still had feelings for him. But honestly, that's not even the wildest part of their stories. Both of them go on to describe a night. So bizarre kind of sounds like a rejected Netflix script. According to both versions, all three men were naked high on meth and watching porn together in bed. The lines between sex, violence and delusion blurred really fast. Jeffrey told police that [00:26:00] at first he thought the stabbing was some kind of role play. He said he thought Joseph was doing a scene until Jamie started screaming, no, Joey, no, please, no. And that's when Jeffrey said he realized it was real and Jamie was fighting for his life. Joseph's version flips it. He says, Jeffrey's the one who lost control, stabbed Jamie in the neck, then grabbed a 38 and shot him twice in the chest. Joseph said, Jeffrey acted like he'd done this before and that afterward he was kind of manic.

He was pacing around, breaking things, threatening him and talking about cleaning up the mess, like it was really nothing. When detectives suppressed Joseph for a motive, he said jealousy was part of it, but also greed. He said they planned to rob Jamie of his meth and money, and that Jeffrey was furious when Joseph wouldn't go along with it, and then Joseph took it to another level. He told Detective Lusher that Jeffrey had bragged about killing. Other people, [00:27:00] 35 of them to be exact, supposedly for the US government. Could we please have one story in the 2026

that does not involve someone saying they were part of the US government? I don't 

get 

Mandy: I know and like it's always like with some horrible job where they had to kill people. I'm like, what 

Melissa: constantly. I. Absolutely. Yeah, I, it's so funny 'cause it's always in stories you just don't think it's gonna come into, and you're like, what? 

How did we get here? But that seems to be the theme for 2025. But he said that Jeffrey actually kept a hat with little gold stars on it

and won for every quote unquote job well done. 

It was really outlandish, 

but Joseph seems serious. He

said, all I know is he scares the heck out of me.

Mandy: Meanwhile, back at the station, detectives were testing that theory the old fashioned way. By comparing facts, They confirmed that Jeffrey really did own the 38 that fired the fatal shots and the gun that had been confiscated by Chicago police. During the counterfeit money arrest [00:28:00] just weeks earlier, the bullet that was found in Jamie's chin matched that gun. So while Jeffrey sat there pretending to be shocked, the detectives were actually already connecting the dots.

They found counterfeit bills in his wallet along with a key chain knife, and they even noticed that he had lied about his birthdate by eight days. When they asked about his relationship with Joseph, he said that Joseph was a drug dealer who had ruined his life. He claimed that Joseph had once beaten him, forced him to keep quiet, and even burned his hands with lie when he thought Jeffrey was talking to the police.

He told detectives that Joseph was capable of anything, and he only stayed because he was terrified. But investigators weren't entirely convinced. They thought if Jeffrey was such a victim, why had he helped cover up a murder, bought the supplies to seal the body, and never contacted the police about it in six months.

And why was his story exactly the same as Joseph's, just with the name swapped? [00:29:00] Detectives now had two people confessing to the same crime. They had two versions of the same night and zero evidence pointing to either one as the killer. All they knew for sure was that one of them was lying. By the time this case hit the courtroom, it was already a media circus.

As you can imagine, you have two men this meth fueled night of sex and murder. There's counterfeit money. There's a dead body in a Rubbermaid tub. Under a Victorian house. You can see how like every headline in Kentucky was like eating this story 

up. They just couldn't get enough of it. So prosecutors decided that they were going to try Joseph first.

It was February of 2013. At this point, it's nearly four years after Jamie's death. During jury selection, one of the first things they asked potential jurors was whether they had any issues with homosexuality. And boy, oh boy, some of those answers were rough. One juror said, honestly, I [00:30:00] don't have nothing against him, but God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

Another said that they would actually feel uneasy being around homosexuals, and one said they admitted that they might actually quote unquote, punish Joseph just for being gay. Th these are real quotes by the way, and it's actually a miracle that this trial was even able to move forward when this is the things that people that are in your jury pool 

Melissa: Yeah. And this is 2013, which 

actually really surprised me. I was like, wow, it's not, yeah. but I can't believe they didn't try to move for it to be moved to another county 

or 

Mandy: a hundred percent. A hundred percent Uh, and we're gonna get into the rest of the story after one last break to hear a word from this week's sponsors.

Marker

Melissa: And now back to the episode. 

Marker

Melissa: Okay, so here's where we are in the story. What started as this nine one one call about a domestic fight turns into this full blown murder investigation where police found a body buried in the basement, and now both Jeffrey and Joseph have confess. Two being [00:31:00] there, but each pointed the finger at each other over who was actually the murderer.

And now it's time for this whole thing to play out in court. So the prosecution comes out swinging. They laid out the entire story. We've covered the drugs, the sex, the counterfeit money. And that horrific night in December of 2009, and their theory was really simple, Jamie came to party, they ran out of meth, and when he left to get more, Jeffrey and Joseph plotted to rob him. When Jamie came back, though, they killed him, stole what they could, and buried him in the basement. In their opening statement, prosecutors said The last thing Jamie Carroll will ever remember is lying naked on that bed. As he stabbed and shot to death, the party was over. Joseph's defense didn't deny the cleanup or the coverup.

They admitted it, but what they did deny, of course, was the murder. They said Joseph helped move and bury the body. Only because he was terrified of Jeffrey. [00:32:00] The defense painted Joseph as a victim. Yes, a drug addict and a criminal, but definitely not a killer. They said Joseph was the one who came forward, who begged to speak with homicide, who named Jamie Carroll and who told police exactly where to find the body and the murder weapon. During the trial, the jury heard from some of Jeffrey's coworkers. One in particular was a girl named Libby, who remembered seeing scratches on Jeffrey's neck right after Jamie's death. She said at the time that they looked fresh like someone had clawed him. But

Jeffrey told her that he fell off a boat dock 

and she didn't buy it because that doesn't make sense. And when she 

saw his arrest on the news, she said her stomach dropped and she knew exactly where those scratches had 

come from. Then came Jeffrey himself. He testified as part of his deal with prosecutors. He painted Joseph as being the violent one, the manipulative drug dealer who dragged him into this nightmare. even described himself as being emotionally [00:33:00] susceptible after his breakup, saying Joseph was a bad boy type who just swept him off his feet. When prosecutors asked about their sex life, Jeffrey did not hold back. He said they were really sexually adventurous and they were into all kinds of things, including rubber, latex, vinyl, and role play. 

Mandy: But then came the contradictions. Jeffrey swore he only started doing drugs after meeting Joseph, but under cross-examination he admitted that he had dabbled Before that he said he was scared of Joseph, but prosecutors showed the jury text messages where he called Joseph, sweetie and darling and even signed off with Love You One message said, I love you dearly.

My fierce Wild jungle, puppy. Which, 

you know, I've heard of a, yeah, I've heard some pet names, but that one takes the cake.

Um, but there was also a jailhouse snitch involved in this case. His name was James Jenkins, more 

Jay names, which is crazy. And this man, James Jenkins claimed [00:34:00] that Jeffrey had actually confessed everything to him.

James said Jeffrey bragged about the murder. He said that burying Jamie was the ultimate high and even claimed that he was aroused by the situation. This man also said that Jeffrey told him he'd been jealous of Joseph and Jamie's relationship. So in exchange for that testimony, Jenkins' life sentence was then reduced to 10 years, which I like.

That's the most insane deal I have ever heard in my life.

Melissa: For a snitch, like for a jailhouse snitch. That seems crazy to me 

because prove this to me. Prove that any of this happened. That 

is wild. 

Mandy: for someone who had a life sentence to get your

Melissa: Why did he have a life sentence? I'm scared. Don't 

Mandy: That's wild. Okay, so after a nine hour deliberation, the jury found Joseph guilty of 

complicity to murder, complicity to first degree robbery, and a handful of drug and forgery charges.

[00:35:00] He waived the jury sentencing phase and cut a deal with prosecutors to avoid the death penalty and agreed to testify against Jeffrey in return. But like everything else in this case, even that deal didn't go smoothly. Jeffrey's trial started a few months later in May of 2013, and from the jump it was chaos.

Jury selection dragged on for days, At this time, there wasn't as much of a focus on, you know, quote unquote discomfort with the graphic nature of this case, but probably, you know, because by then everybody in Louisville already knew that this story was full of that.

And so it wasn't as much of a shock. But in opening statements, prosecutors described Jeffrey as brilliant, but deceitful, They said. He was quote, a bright, well-spoken computer guy who was also a liar and an addict. They argued that Jeffrey wasn't some terrified hostage.

He was the planner, the manipulator, and the man who actually pulled the trigger.

Melissa: Joseph was supposed to testify [00:36:00] against him per his deal, but he had second thoughts. He claimed that prosecutors had actually coerced him and that the plea deal was undue influence. For a while, he actually refused to take the stand at all, and then mid trial he changed his mind again and he testified anyway and he stuck to his story that Jeffrey did it, and he just helped bury the body. Jeffrey's defense attorney, who was a big name in Louisville, told the jury that Joseph was a monster and Jeffrey was his prey. He said Joseph beat him, burned his hands with lie, tracked his phone, and threatened his family. A domestic violence expert testified that Jeffrey fit the profile of a battered spouse. They even had a coworker from the University of Louisville testify that she had seen burns on Jeffrey's hands that January and and that he'd suddenly become withdrawn and clumsy. After meeting Joseph the courtroom, heard about everything from meth binges to fake IDs, to elaborate sexual role, play, [00:37:00] including latex bondage and government agent fantasies. It was a trial that really sounded a little more like a fever dream than a legal proceeding, but in the end, the jury didn't buy murder. On May 29th, 2013, after less than eight hours of deliberation, Jeffrey was acquitted of complicity to commit murder. He was, however, found guilty of complicity to first degree robbery and tampering with evidence. He ended up getting eight years. Joseph who had already pleaded to avoid the death penalty was sentenced just a few weeks later to life in prison without parole for 20 years. He later tried to withdraw his plea, claiming that the prosecutors conspire with Jeffrey and presented false testimony. But the Kentucky Supreme Court shut that down ruling that both men had waived their right to appeal when they made their deals. Still, the high court had one brutally honest line.

In their ruling quote, They were the only two witnesses to the killing. [00:38:00] Clearly, someone was lying even years later, people who worked on the case still can't agree. Detective John Lecher said, yes in my mind. He got away with murder. Both of them were culpable. They both did it. Prosecutor Ryan Conroy told reporters as sick as it sounds, I think Jeffrey was thrilled and loved every minute of that crazy ride. and then Jeffrey's attorney fired back, quote, the jury. Found him not guilty of murder. If

anyone thinks he got away with it, they should have done their jobs better. 

Mandy: When the trials were finally over, the question everyone kept asking was, did Jeffrey get away with murder? The jury said no, at least not in the legal sense, but the court of public opinion was a lot less forgiving since Jeffrey had already spent so much time in jail before sentencing, he was immediately eligible for parole, but he didn't exactly walk into the sunset.

Chicago had a warrant waiting for him related to those counterfeit bills and fake [00:39:00] IDs from the Hyatt when they picked him up there. No one ever publicly confirmed whether he was convicted on that, But after his eight year sentence, he is out living his best low profile life. Joseph wasn't as lucky. He's serving his life sentence at Luther Luckett Correctional Complex in Oldham County, Kentucky.

And his next shot at parole is in 2030 But the whole thing really just leaves more questions than answers. You had both of these men who were both clearly involved somehow in, you know, what happened to Jamie, but they only had the one body. They have no way to prove which one of them actually ended Jamie's life. They couldn't really prove whether his murder was the result of a jealous rage or a drug fueled robbery gone wrong, or they really didn't know if it was possible that both men were equally responsible. And this was some twisted plot that they had, between the two of them. Even now, detectives say it's one of the [00:40:00] strangest cases they've ever seen.

And not just because of the brutality, but also because of how normal everything kind of appeared from the outside until everything came to the surface. 

Of course, this was a very unusual case for some, somewhere like old Louisville. You know, we're talking about an area with Victorian home, you know, historic homes and these treeline streets. It's really the last place that you would expect to find a murder in someone's basement.

Melissa: yeah. 

Mandy: This is. 

Truly a bizarre story. I think I can agree with the authorities who said that it was a bizarre story.

Melissa: No, I totally agree. I was thinking before, I wonder how much of this really just had to do with looking at their records and stuff, because that's the only real way you could differentiate these two, um, in this situation. Like one has a history of committing crimes and being in prison and this other guy just doesn't. So it does make sense where people would kind of, I guess, look at that. But to me, I feel like in a lot of cases it's like, Hey, if

you were there, [00:41:00] you. You were part of it and you would get a similar sentence. 

I guess maybe that's why they weren't tried together, 

because then they would have, but

I don't know.

I was actually very shocked he got, um,

that Jeffrey got so little though. 

Mandy: Me too, and I do have like a lot of sympathy for people who get caught up in relationships like this with someone who literally has the potential to drag you down that far. 

But at the same time, like you are responsible for yourself and that is the reason why there's such a big warning about. Being careful who you have around and who you allow into your life and the types, you know, making good choices basically.

It sounds silly, but it's like literally that's what we teach our kids is like, 

it does matter the type of people you get involved with. You know, if somebody has things going on in their life that you don't want brought into your life, then that's not a, that person is not for you. I do feel bad when people who have not had a record or didn't have any, you know, were never in trouble before.

I 

hate. To see people get into relationships like this where it, something happens [00:42:00] and it drags them down. yeah, it's really unfortunate, but at the end of the day, I feel like you are responsible for yourself and 

neither one of them reported this to the police 

for six months. So that's the other thing, you know, it's like you do have some level of responsibility for sure.

Melissa: Absolutely. 

Mandy: All right guys. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We'll be back next week, same time, same place. News story.

Melissa: Have a great week.

Mandy: Bye.