Revisiting Gabby Petito: Red Flags & Interview with Mom Nichole Schmidt

Why Revisit Gabby's Story?

Mandy and Melissa originally covered Gabby Petito's case when it was making headlines in 2021. But they wanted to revisit her story as part of a special series highlighting cases involving domestic violence.

This episode is not just about the crime—it's about the red flags that appeared in Gabby's relationship with Brian Laundrie, warning signs that are often hidden behind the veil of love and affection.

As moms, Mandy and Melissa wanted to share Gabby's story to emphasize the importance of talking to children about healthy relationships, recognizing red flags, and knowing when love is not love—and when a partner's behavior is not just concerning, but dangerous.

Gabby's Story

Gabrielle "Gabby" Van Nora Petito was born on March 19, 1999. She was the pride and joy of her parents, Nichole Schmidt and Joseph Petito.

Gabby was bright, adventurous, and full of life. She loved exploring, traveling, and documenting her adventures on social media.

In 2021, Gabby and her fiancé, Brian Laundrie, embarked on a cross-country van trip. They planned to visit national parks, camp, and live the "van life" dream.

But behind the beautiful Instagram photos, Gabby's relationship with Brian was toxic and abusive.

On August 12, 2021, police in Moab, Utah, responded to a domestic disturbance call involving Gabby and Brian. Body camera footage showed Gabby visibly distressed, crying, and taking blame for the altercation. Brian appeared calm and collected.

Police separated the couple for the night but did not arrest anyone.

Less than a month later, Gabby was dead.

The Murder

In September 2021, Gabby's family reported her missing. Brian Laundrie returned home to Florida without her and refused to cooperate with investigators.

On September 19, 2021, Gabby's body was discovered in Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming. She had been strangled.

Brian Laundrie became the prime suspect, but before he could be arrested, he disappeared. His body was later found in a Florida nature reserve. He had died by suicide.

Before his death, Brian left a notebook confession admitting to killing Gabby.

Interview with Nichole Schmidt

At the end of this episode, Mandy and Melissa share a powerful interview with Gabby's mother, Nichole Schmidt.

Nichole discusses:

•The red flags she saw in Gabby's relationship with Brian

•Resources for those experiencing domestic violence

•How parents can have open, ongoing conversations with their children about healthy relationships

•The importance of recognizing when love is not love

Gabby's Legacy

Gabby Petito's story is a tragedy that should never have happened. But her legacy is a reminder that by speaking openly about domestic violence and dating partner violence, we can help save lives.

If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, please reach out for help.

National Domestic Violence Hotline:

•Call: 1-800-799-7233

•Text START to 88788

•Online chat: thehotline.org

Gabby's story reminds us to watch for red flags, trust our instincts, and never stay silent when someone we love is in danger.

TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] Hey guys, we are going to be playing our episode from last October during domestic Violence Awareness month, where we shared the story of Gabby Petito and spoke to her mom at the end of the episode about some signs and red flags that she wanted to make people aware of. We know that the Netflix docuseries, American murder about Gabby's case came out this past week, so we thought it would be a good time to share this episode again, as well as resources from Gabby's mom, Nicole, and we had the amazing privilege of speaking to Gabby Petito mom Nicole, and you can check out our interview with her at the end of the episode.

This is one that I'm sure many of our listeners will know about and have heard of the story that we are really eager to share this month during Domestic Violence Awareness Month because it does deal with the topic of domestic violence as it [00:01:00] pertains to the younger generation. The story of Gabby Petito captured the world's attention in the summer of 2021 after the 22-year-old went missing during a cross country road trip with her fiance Brian Laund.

The story which we're telling today unfolded in the most heartbreaking way and illuminated an issue that's often overlooked, the importance of recognizing the warning signs of abuse, especially when they're often hidden behind the veil of love and affection. As moms, we knew we wanted to share Gabby's story during our series this month where we're highlighting stories that involve domestic violence because talking to our kids about the red flags they could encounter as they start navigating romantic relationships for the first time is really so important, but sadly, just isn't really talked about enough.

Gabby Petito was a bright, adventurous young woman with a passion for exploring life who lost her future to a relationship that turned toxic. This is a tragedy that should have never happened, but it is a reminder to us as parents, guardians, and just people who love [00:02:00] the kids in our lives, that we need to have conversations about healthy relationships even before our teens enter the world of dating.

And then we need to keep those conversations open. It's not just about protecting our kids, but also empowering them to recognize when love is not love, and when a partner's behavior is not just concerning, but dangerous as heartbreaking is Gabby's legacy is. Her story, is a reminder that by speaking openly about dating partner violence, we might save lives.

And at the end of the episode, we actually have a very special interview with Gabby's mom, Nicole Schmidt, where we'll talk more in depth about red flags and resources. So without further delay, this is the story of Gabby Petito. It was March 19th, 1999 when Gabrielle Van Nora Petito came into the world and instantly became the pride and joy of her parents.

Nicole Schmidt and Joseph Petito. Nicole and Joseph's relationship didn't work out, but Gabby didn't lack for anything when it came to being loved. She had a blended family with a stepmom. A stepdad, and five younger [00:03:00] siblings who absolutely adored her. Gabby discovered her love of travel at a very early age.

Thanks in part to the many places she was fortunate to travel to during her childhood. Places like The Bahamas and Costa Rica both sparked an early sense of adventure. She was really a free spirit in every sense of the word, and based on the way her friends and loved ones described her. She was just someone who just radiated joy, energy, and friendliness.

She was someone who just made life feel lighter when she was around. Her smile and her goofiness were contagious, and she had a palpable love for life. One kid that was actually babysat by Gabby said that Gabby was someone just living with rainbows. Oh, I just love that. Yeah. Yeah. Such a great way to describe someone.

Gabby loved sunflowers and butterflies, and she also had a tattoo on her arm that read Let It Be, which was a nod to the iconic Beatles song. Her hobbies included yoga, healthy living, reading, traveling, and art. Gabby went to Bayport Blue Point High School in [00:04:00] New York where she first met Brian Laundre, the man who would later become a huge part of Gabby's story.

At first, Gabby and Brian were just friends during high school, but after Brian graduated in 2016 and Gabby the following year, they lost touch for a while before reuniting and starting a relationship. The people that knew the couple felt they were opposites in many ways, but they did have some shared interests, including their love for art and nature, and they both had a deep disdain for littering.

As we mentioned before, Gabby had a lifelong love of traveling and just a really grand sense of adventure and what's a young adventurer to do other than embark on the journey of a lifetime with a cross country road trip? Together. She and Brian set off in Gabby's little Nissan Sentra to travel the country.

They left from New York, which is where Gabby was still living at the time, and they visited numerous states, including North Carolina, Texas, California, Oregon, and Colorado. During a stop at the Santa Monica Pier, Brian snapped a photo [00:05:00] of Gabby that was later featured on the Peer's Official Instagram page, and that was really exciting for Gabby.

It made her start thinking that she might really be onto something with this whole travel blogger idea, and she thought it would just be so fun and an absolute dream to travel around and blog about it on social media, which I agree, especially at 22. Yeah, that would be the most amazing thing in the world.

I would totally be up for. Travel life and blogging about it. That sounds so fun. So with that dream, kind of looking more possible than ever, Gabby knew that they would need something more than a a Nissan Sentra if they were going to do this. She wanted to buy a van and convert it into a living space on wheels and fully embrace the Van Life lifestyle.

In the meantime, after they returned from this first trip, they moved to Florida together where they lived rent-free in a condo that Brian's parents owned. A short time later though, that condo was sold and the young couple moved in with Brian's parents at their home, but [00:06:00] things weren't really ideal and financial issues started to arise.

At the time, Gabby and Brian both worked at a Publix grocery store. Gabby was working in the pharmacy, and she also worked part-time at Taco Bell. And then during the COVID Pandemic, she sold the couple's art on Depop. At one point, Brian thought they could start buying property out west and converting storage containers into Airbnbs.

But these financial strains started to lead to just a general strain on the relationship. But in July of 2020, Gabby posted on Instagram to announce that she and Brian were actually engaged. However, at some point after the engagement announcement, Gabby told her mom, Nicole, that she was upset and just frustrated that the pandemic was kind of preventing her from planning the wedding that she really wanted.

So they were just gonna put it off and focus on traveling first. But behind the scenes there were signs of trouble. A friend of Gabby's named Rose said the relationship was toxic and that Brian was becoming more and more controlling [00:07:00] and jealous. Rose recalled incidents where Brian acted possessive, such as one time when he actually took Gabby's Id from her to prevent her from going out, and he even physically pushed her during this fight.

Gabby ended up staying with Rose that night and any other time really, she needed to get away from Brian and she told Rose that she had these fights with him often, but things were never quote unquote outright violent. Gabby often blamed herself for these fights. She also said that Brian would hear voices and even had a hard time sleeping because of them.

At times, according to Rose, Brian was manipulative and would always get his way, but he knew how to be charming and loving towards Gabby and would do things like making her breakfast, but the blowout fights would still happen. Rose told her own mom that she thought something was off about Gabby's relationship with Brian.

She actually worked with both of them at Publix and noticed that Brian seemed to like that he was able to keep an eye on Gabby while they were at work. Rose said that [00:08:00] Gabby and Brian both quit their jobs when the COVID pandemic started. Others said that Brian was very possessive and touchy with Gabby when others were around, which would make people uncomfortable.

In December of 2020, the couple bought a white 2012 Ford Transit van, which was actually registered in Gabby's name, and she and Brian planned to renovate it so they could live in it while traveling the country. According to Vanity Fair, the Van Life idea was perfect for Brian because it would be a solution to their financial problems, and it would also help Gabby with this dream of becoming a travel blocker.

But in Rose's opinion, Brian just wanted to create a life with Gabby where she would no longer have any space to get away from him. Meanwhile, Gabby and Brian spent their time planning their cross country trip. It was scheduled to take four months, and they planned on visiting state and national parks and camping in the van along the way.

And Gabby would of course be documenting the whole trip on social media. And we still have more to get into after a quick break. Dear word, from this week's sponsors, [00:09:00] and now back to the episode. Before the break, we were just getting into how Gabby Petito and Brian Laundre were just getting into planning this four month long cross country trip that they were planning on taking in a Ford Transit van.

They were going to be fully embracing the Van Life lifestyle as they traveled to different state and national parks. Gabby and Brian left for their big trip on July 2nd, 2021. They visited Monument Rock, Kansas, Colorado Springs, great Sand Dunes, national Park and Preserve in Colorado and several places in Utah, including Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon National Park, mystic Hot Springs, Canyonlands National Park, and Arches National Park.

They were still in Utah on August the 12th. On that day, Gabby went to a cafe in Moab to work on their travel website, which ended up taking her about six hours in total, which was a really big issue for Brian. Other sources have inferred that [00:10:00] Brian was upset because at this point Gabby was spending more time working on her social media goals than she was interacting with him.

At some point while she was at the cafe, Brian came and grabbed the keys to the van and he took Gabby's phone from her and threatened to leave her behind. When Gabby tried to grab her phone from him, Brian slapped her. He tried to prevent her from getting into the van, but Gabby managed to get inside, and Brian then sped off going about 45 miles an hour in a 15 mile an hour zone.

An onlooker who witnessed this whole scene called 9 1 1 to report it. The man said, we drove by and the gentleman was slapping the girl. Then we stopped. They ran up and down the sidewalk. He proceeded to hit her, hopped in the car, and they drove off. Later that day, around 4 45 in the afternoon, the police were able to finally track down Gabby's van.

An officer trailed them for about a mile before Brian finally pulled over at first, because I assume he didn't pull over right away. The officer thought that [00:11:00] whoever was driving might have even been intoxicated. But instead, when the officer approached the van, he saw that both Gabby and Brian had visible injuries.

Brian had scratches on his arms, face, neck and body, while Gabby had bruises on her face and body. The police photographed Brian's injuries but not Gabby's, and they later actually lost the photos that they took of Brian. But experts say they believe the scratches on Brian were done in self-defense and not as part of an intentional attack.

During this encounter with the police, Gabby was crying and she said the couple was having some personal issues, and Brian added that. It had just been a really long day. The couple was separated from each other and the officer was able to speak to each of them. But after a brief conversation with the officer outside, Gabby was instructed to sit in the back of his police car.

The officer told her that she wasn't under arrest. But this whole thing, of course, still made Gabby very uncomfortable. Oh my gosh. How [00:12:00] many times have we seen an officer say, sit in the back. You're not under arrest. And then the person's under arrest like immediately after, right? Like of course you're gonna be absolutely freaking out at this point, right?

And you're already in this heightened state. We don't know the extent of the arguing that was going on right. Prior to the officer pulling them over. She's already been through who knows what up to this point, and so just to even think about her then being placed in the back of a police car. Yeah.

Instead of being comforted and like, okay, the, we're here to figure this out and solve the problem. Like, it's just very, to me, it feels very aggressive to say, sit in the back of a police car. Of course, yeah. Then you're already feeling like you, you know people are, you've done something wrong or you're in trouble.

Right. Yeah. Gabby told the officer that Brian was the one who gave her the bruises, but she admitted that she also hit him because he had taken her phone and tried to lock her out of the van. She said that during this physical altercation, she punched him in the arm and she was also cut by his fingernail, and that caused her to bleed.

And [00:13:00] there was a bruise there. Something that's really heartbreaking and just hard to hear is that a selfie Gabby took at 4:37 PM on August 12th, on this day was found later. So this photo would've been taken two minutes before that. Good Samaritan called 9 1 1 to report that he had seen Brian hitting Gabby.

And in this photo you can see a cut on Gabby's face and blood under her eye, as well as on her cheek and forehead. It's not entirely clear what reason she had for taking this photo, but the most likely reason is that she was documenting the injury to have as evidence in the future. The officer that pulled the couple over was wearing a body cam, and the footage shows Gabby demonstrating what Brian did to her in the fight, which included putting his hand over her mouth.

And this actually should have really stood out to the officer because in Utah obstructing the nose, mouth, or airway of an individual as considered an aggravated assault. This alone should have signaled to the police that there was something more serious going on than [00:14:00] just a few scratches and a slap across the face, which by the way, is also assault and totally unacceptable.

According to Brian though, he and Gabby had been having problems that had been building over the last few days. He stated that he pushed Gabby because she had her phone in her hands. Which Vanity Fair goes on to say that makes no sense, and we would both agree as well. What I feel like, yeah, you still need some follow up as to, okay, so why, you know, there's still.

That doesn't explain anything. Absolutely nothing. So Gabby said that they started arguing after Brian got into the van with dirty feet and things escalated into a fight about Gabby's excessive cleaning of the van. At some point, Brian told Gabby he didn't think she'd make it as a travel influencer, which was very hurtful for her.

She told the officer quote, I just quit my job to travel across the country and I'm trying to start a blog, a travel blog. So I've been building my website, I've been really stressed, and he doesn't believe that I can do any of it. End quote, which is heartbreaking, like this is so [00:15:00] sad. Her dream and he's.

Along for the ride, I guess. And to say that to her is like the most hurtful thing you could say In that moment. Gabby tried to insist that she was a primary aggressor in this fight and they wanted to arrest her for those scratches on Brian, but they actually both pleaded with the officers not to arrest her, and they said they were in love.

If you've never watched the police body cam footage, it's very upsetting. Um, very, I'm not saying that you should, but it's wild to see his demeanor versus her demeanor in this and not realize something is really wrong. But one of the officers named Eric Pratt walked up to Brian and told him You are the victim of domestic assault.

And this is a statement that Brian actually laughed at. Brian was then sent to a hotel, which was paid for by a local women's shelter while Gabby was told to sleep in the van before the police left, one of the officers asked Gabby if she would like them to tell Brian that she loved him and she would see him tomorrow.

What on earth? What a [00:16:00] wild thing to say under any circumstance. Yeah, right. Like no matter what, if you're responding to a call, like a dispute between a couple, like that's just such a bizarre and weird thing. Like who would even think to ask that or say that? Or like, what are you talking about at a time like this?

Exactly. Yeah. That's just so strange to me. Yeah, I don't get it. So Gabby didn't really respond to this, but she did say to make sure Brian had a phone charger. However, that officer did go and tell Brian that Gabby said she loved him and would see him in the morning, which is not again, why would you do that?

Yeah, right. Brian heard this, smiled and laughed. The officers did not tell her where Brian was staying even though she would have to pick him up in the morning, and she wasn't really used to driving the van, so she wanted to make sure the hotel wasn't too far away. The police and Brian seemed to look at the quote, unquote free hotel stay being paid for by these domestic violence funding as a vacation and not as a result of a public domestic [00:17:00] violence incident.

Wow. That all of that is so just especially knowing what happened. It's hard to hear that this was the interaction that she had with the police. Absolutely. Yeah. And that, that all of this, I mean, just everything about this and their resolution of sending him to a hotel paid for with, you know, these funds and it's a free stay for him, like all of that is so infuriating.

Mm-hmm. That's how it ended with the police. That's just awful. But to make matters even worse, the police concluded that the incident wasn't even an assault, but instead was a mental health crisis. Officer Pratt made a report stating that the entire thing was due to Gabby's quote, unquote, serious anxiety.

The responding officers said they didn't hear the nine one one call and Officer Pratt stated that no one reported that Brian struck Gabby, which wasn't true. Yeah. The 9 1 1 caller said they saw Brian hitting her and Gabby's own statements to the police on the scene. Confirmed that that's what happened.

Another officer [00:18:00] though, officer Robbins stated quote. At no point in my investigation did Gabrielle stop crying, breathing heavily or compose a sentence without needing to wipe away tears, which, okay, that alone should tell you a lot of information. Right? Betty went on to say that Brian's statement quote was not consistent with Gabrielle's statement, further suggesting her confused and emotional state after evaluating the totality of the circumstances.

I do not believe the situation escalated to the level of a domestic violence assault as much as that of a mental health crisis. So him saying something different than her means that she was just confused. Right? And I guess a hysterical woman is what they would look at it as. Right? So infuriating and insulting and everything else.

It is one of those things that I feel like people don't take seriously when something like this happens to a woman or they're, you know, they're treated like they're just acting crazy, you [00:19:00] know? Right. For, you know, for behaving in an emotional way when they are the victim of either an assault or some type of abuse and the police show up and it's like, no, you're just acting crazy.

Like, th that actually happens. Yeah. This story is proof that that happens, and probably more frequently than any of us would like to admit. And so, totally. It's so important to kind of bring awareness to that, you know, to be aware that. This is going on, this story happened in 2021. This is still happening.

Just being her age. If I was pulled over by the police and they said, any of this, I would already be crying like already. Yeah. Yeah. It, it wouldn't take anything. I, I cry over everything. I'm in a, in a frustrating situation. If I'm just frustrated, I'll cry. You know, if I am like anxious or just like, full of energy, like I will cry.

And so I am that person who would be labeled, somebody who's just out of control of you not in touch with your emo Yeah. Or, you know, you're just, you can't control your emotions. So it's just, yeah, it's very, um, upsetting just the whole interaction. For [00:20:00] sure. So this second officer that we were just talking about also described Gabby as being manic, but he did think that Brian's behavior was also a little strange.

Did not make a note of that in his report though. But he did ask Brian if he was on any medication because he was incredibly hyper. Gabby's friend Rose later told people that she watched the body cam footage and Gabby's behavior was all too familiar. Rose said that she had even seen Gabby like that before and it was always the same situation, and Gabby was always defending Brian.

It really needs to be noted that this is not abnormal for victims of domestic violence. It's very common that they will do anything to protect their abuser, including throwing themselves under the bus. However, these are the things that the police should know and be aware of looking out for when they encounter a couple in this type of situation.

Gabby's family would later learn that Officer Pratt allegedly had his own history of domestic violence, and so the fact that he himself may have been an abuser made [00:21:00] him biased against Gabby and. Honestly, that's a lot to even take in. It just makes me so angry to think of Gabby being in that situation.

But we're gonna have more about that a little bit later in the episode. So on August 17th, several days after this now infamous encounter with the police, Brian flew back to Florida to clean out a storage unit they had so they could close it up and save some money. And he was also going to get some supplies for the road trip.

While he was back in Florida, he stayed with his parents. Gabby stayed at a hotel in Utah and awaited Brian's return, which he did return on August 23rd. Meanwhile, while Brian's in Florida back on August 19th, Gabby uploaded the first and only video to ever be posted on the couple's YouTube channel, which they called Nomadic Static.

The video was titled Van Life, beginning Our Van Life Journey. The video shows Gabby and Brian laughing and kissing and it goes to show that [00:22:00] what you see on the surface and clips on social media really just aren't always showing you the full story. Yeah. Painting the full picture because she's uploading this video after what we know, you know, was a pretty serious fight that they had, and that's just one of who knows how many.

Right. On August 24th, the couple was seen leaving a Salt Lake City Hotel together Around this time, either August 23rd or 24th, Gabby talked to her mom, Nicole on FaceTime, and told her they were headed for Grand Tetin National Park in Wyoming. Gabby posted on Instagram on August 25th, and this was the last post that she would ever make.

That same day the couple's van was confirmed to be spotted at Grand Tetin National Park, so they did make it there. On August 27th, Gabby and Brian were seen having a tense time at a restaurant in Wyoming. Witnesses there said Gabby was visibly upset, and Brian was described as being angry. At one point, he actually stormed out of the restaurant with a [00:23:00] tearful Gabby falling after him.

Brian eventually came back and paid the bill after a manager approached him. Witnesses and the manager had really conflicting stories, but from what we can gather, Gabby was highly distressed and apologized to the staff as she urged Brian, who was again acting relatively calm to leave. He was actually trying to get them to refund their meal, which the restaurant refused to do.

But finally, Brian reluctantly agreed to leave. The couple was seen on surveillance at a Whole Foods grocery store in Jackson, Wyoming later that day, as well as in another video that shows them leaving Jackson around 3:00 PM that afternoon. By the evening of the 27th, they had parked the van at the Bridger Tetin National Forest and set up their camp in a secluded area away from the van.

On August 29th, a woman named Miranda and her boyfriend were driving through the National Park when they spotted Brian Hitchhiking near the Culture Bay Visitor Center. He told the couple he had been out hiking alone and he was trying to get back [00:24:00] to his girlfriend and to their van. The couple gave him a ride to Mo Injunction, which was about 10 miles away.

But when they got there, Brian said they were going the wrong direction, but he still had them stop and he got out of their car at six 15 that evening. Another woman named Norma stopped and picked Brian up and drove him to the entrance of Wyoming's Spread Creek dispersed camping area. Norma offered to drive him further into the campsite, but he became agitated and he insisted he would go the rest of the way on his own.

Little did Norma know Brian was hiding a horrific scene there. The next day, August 30th, Brian was seen in multiple surveillance videos at gas stations across several states as he made his way back to Florida. In each of these videos, Brian was alone. That day, Nicole got some strange texts from Gabby's phone that said, can you help Stan?

I just keep getting his voicemails and missed calls. Stan is actually Gabby's [00:25:00] grandfather's name. So Nicole thought it was very odd that Gabby would be referring to him by his first name. Another part of the text said something like No service in Yosemite. And that was also bizarre because Gabby and Brian weren't ever in California on this trip, and that's where Yosemite is.

The last known location of Gabby's cell phone was traced within the boundaries of Bridger Tetin National Forest. Gabby's family had been trying to reach her for days, but all their attempts had failed. It was on August 30th, the same day that Brian was traveling back to Florida. That Gabby's phone was shut off for the last time.

On September 10th, Nicole tried to report Gabby missing to Federal Park Police, but they wouldn't allow her to make a report. Meanwhile, Brian was using Gabby's credit card at a Circle K in Tennessee on August 31st, and he transferred money to himself from Gabby's Zelle account. He then added a whole bunch of breakup songs to a Spotify playlist that he titled Mountaintops, but spelled [00:26:00] MTN Tops, uh, as he drove his way back to Florida.

Brian arrived in Northport by himself on September 1st. Just days later, he joined his parents on a camping trip about 75 miles away from their home. Interestingly, the original reservation that his parents had for their campsite was made on August 24th, and they made the reservation for two people to come camp from September 1st to September 3rd.

Then Brian shows back up in Florida on September 1st. That original reservation for the campsite was canceled and rescheduled for three people to come camp. I looks like the following weekend, or sometime the following week, September 6th and seventh, on September 4th, Brian bought a new phone and set up an account with at and t.

This wasn't a burner phone. It's actually unclear why he needed to get this new phone or what even happened to his old device. As days turned into weeks, there was still no sign of Gabby anywhere, and her parents were absolutely [00:27:00] frantic and desperate to find her. Gabby's dad called the police to the laundry residence multiple times between September 10th and September 27th, and her parents even reached out to Brian's parents and sister through several calls and texts, but they never got a response from anyone.

By September 11th, Gabby's parents had both officially reported her missing. Nicole had gone to a police station in New York and spoke with Detective Tracy Berry, who was the one who officially reported Gabby missing and got in touch with the authorities in Northport, Florida to have them conduct a wealth check on Gabby at the laundry home.

So that same day, the authorities in Florida went to the laundry home and they ended up finding that, guess what? Brian is here. Gabby's van is here. Gabby's not here. So when the news became public, several witnesses started coming forward with their stories of how they had seen Gabby and Brian at different parks in and around Utah and Wyoming.

In late August and soon, the Park Rangers from Grand Tet and National Park, [00:28:00] along with the National Park Service and the FBI began searching for Gabby. And we have more to get into after one last break to hear a word from this week's sponsors. Now back to the episode. So before the break, Brian is back at home in Florida with his parents and Gabby's parents have been able to file a missing person's report on Gabby and as police find out that Brian's at his parents' house, the van is at his parents' house, but Gabby's not.

This story is out there that Gabby is missing and people start coming outta the woodwork and saying, you know, they saw the couple here or there through their travels. Which actually isn't surprising because that kind of community of traveling and RVs and campers and all that stuff, yes. They look out for each other too.

Yeah, absolutely. So to me, when that started coming out, it made sense that like these are credible witnesses that like really did see something. By September 14th, Gabby's parents had grown more than frustrated with the lack of communication with Brian and his family. And they publicly stated that Brian was refusing to [00:29:00] tell them where their daughter was or where he last saw.

Her police actually obtained a search warrant for the van. And on September 14th, they discovered that Gabby's personal belongings were also missing, and the mattress that was usually in the van was gone. And of course, police knew that there was a mattress in the van because of that video that Gabby had posted on YouTube that showed the inside of the Van Luminol tests were performed in several items from the van were taken into evidence, including three photos from above the visor, a black iPhone seven, and an iPhone box, a Western digital external hard drive, five notebooks and greeting cards, a hair fiber, and a fingernail.

Other noteworthy things about the van were that a serrated knife was found in the rear swinging door compartment, and there were visible staining on the driver's side dashboard and seat. There was no visible blood, but the luminol tests revealed several areas of luminescence. So further blood tests were performed, but no blood was found.

[00:30:00] On September 15th, Brian was officially named as a person of interest in Gabby's disappearance. His lawyer released a statement on Brian's behalf that said the reason Brian was not talking to the police was because he, being the lawyer, told him not to this whole thing when this was going on. It's just enraging and, and you cannot, we're parents, we're moms.

You cannot understand how his family's not saying you cannot understand. You've gotta say something's. No way. You can't, and, and like you said, as parents and even I, you know, I have two boys, you have a son, but I don't understand that at all. Like if my son left. On a cross country road trip with a girl and came back without the girl, I would immediately not stop questioning until I found out where she was.

She is like, to me, is like so minor, mind blowing, and especially at the point that you have her parents calling you looking for information. To not respond bell and [00:31:00] red flags nonstop. To just not respond and to not give anyone any information whatsoever is just, you can't begin to understand it. You really can't.

No, but the attorney does go on to say, quote, many people are wondering why Mr. Laund would not make a statement or speak with law enforcement in the face of Ms. Petit's. Absence. Absence, that's not the word for it. She's missing, right. In my experience, intimate partners are often the first person law enforcement focuses their attention on in cases like this, and the warning that any statement made will be used against you is true regardless of whether my client had anything to do with Ms.

Petit's disappearance. As such, on the advice of counsel, Mr. Laundre is not speaking on this matter. On September 16th, Gabby's father spoke at a press conference where he begged for help in finding his daughter. The next day, Brian's parents told the police, they didn't even know where Brian was anymore, and that they last saw him on September 14th when he said he was going for a hike at the Carlton Reserve in Sarasota [00:32:00] County, Florida.

But the next day he didn't come back, and when his father went to the park, he saw Brian's car in the parking lot with a note on it from a park employee that said the car had to be moved or it would be towed. Brian's dad tried walking some of the trails looking for him, but he couldn't find him anywhere.

He left Brian's car there thinking that he would be back to get it, but on September 16th, his father returned to the park and picked up Brian's car and brought it home. That's when they filed a missing persons report. Up until this point though, it was believed that Brian had only left his parents' house three times since he arrived on September 1st, authorities began searching for Brian in the Carlton Reserve On September 18th, divers were brought in to help search the massive 24,000 acre area, and this was a search that would continue for the next several weeks.

On September 19th, back in Utah, things took a turn that everyone had been fearing. Authorities who had been searching for Gabby in the Grand Tetin National [00:33:00] Park area found the remains of a young woman who looked to have died about three to four weeks earlier. It was Gabby Petito. Her body was found near where her van was seen parked at one point and it looked as though she'd been moved from where she was killed and placed where her body was found Near Gabby's remains.

Police found a speed loader for a revolver that had ammunition inside of it and two arrows. Gabby's cause of death was strangulation. At this point, nobody knew where Brian was, but on September 20th, his house, or rather his parents' house was raided and police seized his car in a hard drive along with over 60 other items that were taken into evidence.

One such piece of evidence was a journal they found in the bedroom that was believed to be Brian's, and it had a note written in it that said, quote, my real options are to run off entirely on my own. Buy a piece of land or kill myself under the mattress I'm on. There's a loaded 3 57 Magnum [00:34:00] revolver, a pull of the trigger, and all my problems will be over.

So the police, of course, confiscated this note, and they took several boxes of ammunition from the house and it was confirmed that there were guns in the residence. Another note was found, though it's unclear whether Gabby or Brian wrote this note, but it said, so. I hope you understand when I'm upset, it's 'cause you make me love you too much.

Now stop crying and come home and say you love me with a big hug. I love you. By September 23rd, Brian still hadn't been located, but a federal court in Wyoming issued an arrest warrant for him. Due to the unauthorized use of Gabby's credit card, it's likely that they were just looking to file some sort of warrant to get Brian behind bars while they were working on this investigation into Gabby's homicide.

On the 25th rewards totaling $30,000 were announced for information leading to Brian or his whereabouts. As the days pressed on and it got into the beginning of October, Brian [00:35:00] still hadn't been found and his family was making public pleas for him to come home, which is wild for the tables to turn. And now you need the public's help.

Yes. And you want the public to help, but that's none of my business. Yeah. So on October 19th, after efforts to find their son had been unsuccessful, Brian's parents both contacted the police and asked if they could accompany them to the environmental park where the massive search for Brian was taking place.

Police agreed. And on October 20th, the laundries went to join the search. Within minutes, Brian's parents magically discovered a dry bag that contained personal items belonging to their son. Brian, this has been like a month that has gone on and no one has found. No one has found anything and. Yeah, it's Take it for what you will.

Yeah. Then his parents found it right away when they went out there. Very interesting and not weird at all. A short time later, Brian's remains were found in the [00:36:00] area where police had been looking for him. He died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound near his remains. They found a backpack, a notebook, a revolver, and camping gear.

This area where his remains were found had previously been underwater, which is why they didn't see them before. Inside Brian's backpack, they found a letter from his mother inside an envelope with the words Brian, Christopher Laund Burn After reading, written on the front immediately. No, I was already enraged.

Enraged. I hadn't even gotten to the letter yet, but just the fact that, no, I just already am mad. Yeah, for sure. And continue that rage 'cause we're going on. So the letter read quote, I just want you to remember, I will always love you and I know you will always love me. You are my boy. Nothing can make me stop loving you.

Nothing will or could ever divide us no matter what we do or where we go or what we say, we will always love each other. If you're in jail, I will bake a cake with a file in it. [00:37:00] Whoa. Let's keep going. If you need to dispose of a body, I will show up with a shovel in garbage bags. Wow. Very specific. If you fly to the moon, I will be watching the skies for your reentry.

If you say you hate my guts, I'll get new guts. Has to be some of the weirdest words I've ever heard a mother writing to her son. Yeah, it went on to say, remember that love is a verb, not a noun. It's not a thing. It's not words. It's actions. Watch people's actions to know if they love you, not their words.

Then she put a Bible verse. Therefore, I'm certain that neither death nor life nor angels nor the ruling spirits, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers from above, nor powers from below, nothing in the entire creative world can separate our love. Neither hostile powers nor messengers of heaven, nor monarchs of earth, nothing has the power to separate us.

Romans 8 38 extended version, and then she went on to say, nothing can separate us. Not hatred, not hunger, not homelessness, not threats, not even sin, not the thinkable or [00:38:00] unthinkable can get between us. And then right next to that and like little swirly. Cutesy punctuation. She wrote, not time, not miles and miles and miles.

Hmm. Interesting letter. After Gabby was found, her parents announced that they would be starting the Gabby Petito Foundation with the mission to prevent domestic violence and support the search for missing persons through education, awareness, and prevention strategies, the foundation is committed to empowering communities and fostering partnerships that strengthen efforts to end domestic violence and reunite families with missing loved ones.

On January 21st, 2022, the FBI revealed that in the notebook found near Brian's remains was a written confession to the murder of Gabby Petito. The confession was eight pages long and filled with emotional writing that offered a glimpse into Brian's mindset during the tragic events that ended Gabby's life.

In his confession, Brian expressed that he was deeply sorry and regretful over what he had done, and he addressed Gabby directly saying, [00:39:00] I wish I was right at your side. I can't bear to look at our photos to recall great times because it is why I cannot go on. Brian wrote about how much he loved Gabby and how the weight of her loss had left him unable to continue his own life.

He also acknowledged the pain Gabby's family must be in because in his words, her family loved her quote as much, if not more than he did. Oh my gosh, that that also enrages me now. They did. Yes, they did. Yeah, exactly. He went on to describe Gabby's relationship with his own parents as being like a daughter to them, and like she was an aunt to his nephews, and he asked for his family to forgive him for the horrible things he did to cause Gabby's death.

He said that everything happened as the result of what he called an unexpected tragedy. He then went on to describe exactly what happened in his own words. He painted a picture of an accident that spiraled way out of control. According to the confession, they had been rushing back to the van trying to cross [00:40:00] streams before it got dark and Gabby slipped and fell into the water.

Brian claimed that this fall caused injuries so severe that Gabby was just in an immense amount of pain and was gasping for air. By the time he found her, she was soaking wet and freezing cold because the temperatures had plummeted as the sun had gone down. So Brian said he carried her for as long as he could back towards the van, but he was exhausted and in shock, and he emphasized how cold they were.

He allegedly set Gabby down and started a fire to keep her warm because he said at that point it's dark and he wasn't sure how far the van even was, and he just couldn't continue carrying her any longer. Brian claimed that when he pulled Gabby outta the water, she couldn't tell him what was hurting her, but she did have a small bump on her forehead that got larger, and she said her feet and wrist hurt and she was shaking violently from being cold.

Brian alleged that Gabby was constantly crying out in pain and begging for him to make it stop. [00:41:00] She would start to fall asleep, and Brian said that made him nervous because he didn't know if she had a concussion. But when he would shake her awake, she would get furious with him, and it would just start this whole painful cycle of her crying in pain and begging him to make it all go away.

Brian wrote that Gabby begged him for an end to her suffering and in his shock and panic, he made this decision to end her life believing that it was some sort of merciful act at the time, but said that he later realized the gravity of what he had done. So he's a hero, is what he's trying to say. He's right, helping her.

And just for the record, obviously Brian is not here anymore. Gabby is not here anymore. None of us know if any of this is even true. I don't mind going on the record saying that I have a lot of doubts about what he wrote in this confession. And also don't really understand why you would. Write a false confession and then take your own life.

Just tell the truth. I feel like this is very hard to believe. A lot of this is very [00:42:00] hard to believe. Brian continued the letter saying that after he killed Gabby, he just knew he couldn't go on without her. So he rushed home to Florida to spend what time he had left with his family. I hate the way he's making it sound like he has a terminal illness.

Right. This is not a walk to remember right. He said that he contemplated letting Gabby's family or his own friends kill him, but ultimately he decided to take his own life and he said, he actually said that he hoped by killing himself out in the wilderness, animals such as maybe alligators would come along and tear his body apart and that that might give some solace to Gabby's family.

Brian ended the letter with quote, please pick up all of my things. Gabby hated people who litter the FB. I concluded their investigation by determining that Brian was solely responsible for Gabby's death. They also revealed that Brian had used Gabby's phone to send text messages to himself in an effort to make it look like she was still alive after he killed her at this time.

The FBI said that they had concluded all [00:43:00] investigative steps in the case and that it was officially closed. The police department in Moab, Utah later did a review of its handling of the August 12th encounter that the officers had with Gabby and Bryan after the stranger had called to report. Witnessing Brian hitting Gabby and that report said that the officers made errors during this interaction and that some of those errors included not making an arrest and misinterpreting the law.

Seems like big ones. On March 11th, 2022, Gabby's parents filed a lawsuit against the laundries alleging that they already knew Gabby was dead by the time the search for her was starting. The laundries tried to get the case dismissed, but in June of 2022, a judge denied the dismissal and a trial date was set for February, 2024.

One big focal point of this lawsuit was that burn after reading letter that Brian's mom wrote to him and Roberta Laund admitted that while the letter does contain references that some might think are about her son and Gabby, there is no connection between her words [00:44:00] and Gabby's death. During a deposition, it was revealed that Brian spoke to his parents on August 29th and told them that Gabby was gone and he said he was coming back to Florida and he would need a lawyer.

Attorney Steven Bertino was hired the very next day. Brian never said that he killed Gabby, but Roberta said the thought did cross her mind. She said she never returned the Petito calls or messages because her lawyer told her not to talk to anyone. Gabby's family ended up settling with the laundries to avoid a trial.

At that point, they had been given all the information they needed during the depositions, so to avoid potentially spending years in appeals courts and taking on hefty legal fees. They were advised to settle as trial was not an option. In August of 2022, the Petito sued the Moab Police Department in a $50 million wrongful death suit.

In order to sue an officer, Gabby's family would have to pay a $200,000 bond. This is actually a protection that's in place for police officers, and the lawsuit [00:45:00] alleges that it was negligence on the part of the police department. That led to Gabby's death. The Petito lawyer said that domestic violence is an epidemic and a silent killer, where the signs and symptoms often go unrecognized by those who aren't familiar with domestic violence.

And the purpose of this lawsuit was to honor Gabby's legacy and work towards systemic changes to protect victims of to domestic abuse and violence, and to prevent such tragedies from happening in the future. In the August 12th stop, Gabby was the only one who police were looking to arrest or give a citation to, even though the original report was that Brian had hit Gabby, the lawsuit alleges that the police did not know how to quote, investigate domestic violence situations and to properly assess his circumstances, including to identify Brian as the true primary aggressor.

After the lawsuit was filed, the family learned that Officer Eric Pratt, one of those who had responded to this August 12th incident, allegedly had a history of domestic abuse himself and had used authority and threats of [00:46:00] physical violence to control and intimidate sexual partners. One Utah woman said that she got death threats from Pratt, who had resigned from another police department before becoming a patrol officer in Moab.

The attorney for the Petito family said that the Moab PD should have known that Officer Pratt, who had a history of pervasive, professional and sexual misconduct, including sexual harassment and intimate partner violence, was unfit and unsafe to be a police officer. The attorney also said that Pratt admitted to knowing that Gabby was in trouble when he responded to the scene.

He actually said at the scene quote, you know why the domestic assault code is there? It's there to protect people. The reason they don't give us discretion on these things is because too many times women who were at risk want to go back to their abuser. They just wanted him to stop, and they don't wanna be separated.

They don't want him charged. They don't want him to go to jail, and then they end up getting worse and worse treatment, and then they end up getting killed. End quote. Oh my gosh. Right. So even though he did acknowledge the danger of this situation that [00:47:00] Gabby was in, he intentionally chose not to follow the protocol of the law.

On November 17th, 2022, Gabby and Brian's parents settled the lawsuit and Gabby's parents were awarded $3 million. And all of this money will go to the Gabby Petito Foundation. As of today, there are still questions unanswered, such as why does Officer Pratt still have a job? In fact, he has allegedly been promoted and is allegedly working in a school with kids.

Questions also remain. Why haven't the laundries been charged with any crimes? The most heartbreaking question that we need an answer to is why did the people who were supposed to help Gabby fail her when she needed them the most? Today, Gabby's parents continue to run the Gabby Petito Foundation working to make sure victims and survivors of domestic violence receive the help and support they deserve.

And they are creating prevention programs for youth and training programs for first responders. Their website is gabby petito foundation.org. And of course we will have that in our show notes. [00:48:00] And now we are going to play the interview that we had with Nicole Schmidt, who is Gabby Petito mom and the president of the Gabby Petito Foundation.

This was such an enlightening call and I learned so much from her, especially if you have kids. I think you definitely wanna hear what she has to say and um, just very thankful she worked with us on this episode. We still have two more weeks of the Domestic Violence Awareness Month campaign that we're running.

So we hope that you guys will continue to share these and learn the warning signs that we may not have known. Um, I know I've learned several, and familiarizing yourself with the resources in case you or someone you know needs them. And without further ado, here's our interview with Nicole Schmidt.

We've been looking forward to this. Nicole, we just have so much to learn from you and we have so much respect for you and we're just honored that you would come on our show. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. It's, it's an honor to be here, Uhhuh. [00:49:00] You have a great show, so I'm happy to be here.

Thank you. And we should definitely thank Hailey, because Hailey is like, people connector, right? She is amazing. I love her, isn't she? I know. Yeah. The more we tell people about her, I'm like, Mandy, we might need to keep her on download because we're gonna lose her to somebody else. Yeah. She's fantastic.

She's, yeah. Everyone wants to know how they can work with Hailey. I'm like, oh, I, and we give them fake email addresses. Yes.

So we've, we've spoken about Gabby today and one thing that you've been able to do since your daughter's murder, it's to start the foundation, the Gabby Petito Foundation, which is already doing so much good out there. And we'd love to know a little more about how that came about and a little bit more of what you'd like to share about.

Sure. So we decided to start the foundation almost immediately after everything happened. It was, um. I don't know. I just had this like epiphany one day. I was, I was angry and as an angry mom, I wanted to prevent this from happening to [00:50:00] other Gabby's out there. All our beautiful young girls out there who are going through this and anybody else who's struggling with it.

So, um, I just blurted out one day, um, I wanna start a foundation. I called everybody, I told them my idea and they were all aboard. So that's when we came together as the four parents and just hit the ground running from there. Yeah, it was crazy. I remember seeing Gabby's story in the news and, and how that led because of you guys using your voice for so much more.

I learned about the case of Daniel Robinson and so many other cases that people really didn't know about. You guys made it a point to share other people's stories, which I have chills just saying that, but truly is like you didn't have to do anything other than what you were doing. And I just think that says so much about you guys and your foundation and what you're doing.

And I'm going off on a little. Tangent there, but I just That's okay. Really have all the respect in the world for you. Thank you. When we, when we come together and we [00:51:00] see other parents struggling, getting their missing loved ones out there, um, families getting their loved ones out there, we, it's upsetting because we had such a big following and Gabby was out there all over the world.

So for us, it's, the least we can do is try and help get more attention to cases that don't normally get that attention. I mean, it's incredible to be able to look beyond yourself in that sort of situation. We, um, work with, uh, Kirsten Bride again, her husband, Jared GaN was murdered a few years ago and we have, I'm sure Haley's told you about the Bexley box and stuff, and her story kind of came about in the same way where she said, I have to do something and is able to create this.

And just doing something outside of yourself, I don't know. It's, it's amazing. I always find it just incredibly admirable when somebody who is in the middle of a tragedy that you can't even begin to imagine is able to use that [00:52:00] to try to help others and to take action. And like Melissa said, it really is just such a beautiful thing to see people, um, turning to those types of things, you know, in their own time of need when they absolutely do not have to and nobody expects them to.

Um, I think just respect is absolutely the correct word for how we feel about, uh, about you and about people who are able to do that. Yeah, I think part of it is also helping us heal and get through the grief by helping others. It really, I always like to say it fills our cup, you know? Yeah. It makes us just feel a little bit better when we are preventing hearing that someone's life was saved because of what we're doing.

It really makes. Your loved one didn't die in vain because of all the work that you're doing. So it's, it's meaningful. Yeah. And I mean, really Gabby's story touched so many younger people. 'cause I feel like we normally hear about domestic violence in, you know, women who have been married several years, um, have kids, stuff like [00:53:00] that.

And to hear this story of a girl that's younger, a Gen ZI never know which millennium we're in with these kind of things. But basically, so opening the eyes to not only girls around Gabby's age, but also the parents of girls around Gabby's age. Just to kind of see, you know, it doesn't always start the way you think it would or look the way you think it would.

Correct. Um, domestic violence has no boundaries. It can happen to anyone. And we would have never in a million years thought. Even right under our noses. We didn't see the, we didn't know the signs. We probably, it would've still been hard to even see the signs knowing them. Um, but I think the most things that people could do is educate themselves because there were certain things that I look back on and I might have questioned at the time as a mom that I wish that my instincts were working a little bit better.

But again, with education, we'll, we'll know more. So [00:54:00] you can really save somebody if you know the signs and um, you know, it's not just physical. That's the one big thing is people still think it's physical. Oh, well he didn't hit me, you know, so, yeah. But it could still hurt. So emotional abuse is probably worse than physical abuse and it can happen over years.

You don't even know that you're being manipulated and it's mind control and it's horrible. Yeah. Yeah. So it's of course very important like you were saying, to uh, be able to recognize not only what these red flags are in the relationships, but then to also take action when you actually see them. And I feel like that is one of the most important messages to get across, especially during domestic violence awareness month, is don't ignore those red flags when you see them.

You know, take your intuition seriously and if you see something that is off, you know, think about what's really going on. Talk to somebody that you trust. Um, so I was hoping that we could kind of maybe talk about some red flags, um, that you [00:55:00] think are really important to take note of, maybe that people might not know.

'cause there's so many. Yeah. Yeah, I think the biggest red flag for me, um, that I learned about is re is love bombing. And people, I, I just heard them talking on the radio about it the other day, love bombing. What is this? This is ridiculous. Well, it's a problem because it's somebody's way of manipulating you.

And so thinking that you are, you are so special, they're gonna do everything for you and they kind of get you to a place where you trust them. And once you get to that place of trust, that could be when things start changing and that's when the control starts happening. Um, but the love bombing is like the phase one.

It doesn't always happen, but it's, it's definitely something that happens a lot more than I knew. Yeah. So, and I could give you an example with Gabby. It was, um. Little gifts, actually. Big gifts. I mean, she came home with like a Louis Vuitton [00:56:00] headband and a brand new camera, like an expensive one. And uh, I was like, where, where are you getting this stuff?

Yeah. And she said, Brian bought it for me. And she was so excited about it. I actually had to tell Brian that you don't have to buy her things. And even as a mom, just my instinct was to tell him, you don't have to buy her things. Right. Um, in my mind, my daughter was being a brat and I didn't know what love bombing was, and that would've been an indicator of there's a problem here that he's so desperately trying to get her to, to stay with him by buying her things that are clearly.

Ridiculous and just dating a couple of months. So yeah. And then on the other side, being Gabby, how can you leave somebody that's doing all these really kind things for you and then everybody knows about it? So how could you, yeah. Love bombing is something I feel like none of us knew about till fairly recently.

And it is such a, and it's a difficult one not only to recognize, but like you said, to actually say [00:57:00] that's what's happening. Because when you're on the receiving end, it can feel just like this person really cares about me. So of course you're not thinking this is actually a red flag, that there could be some type of manipulation or control tactic going on behind these things.

That's not what you want to believe when you feel like you are in love with someone. So I definitely think love bobbing is an important one to look out for and a very easy one to overlook. Absolutely. Um, another one is isolation. It's so common, it's. Whether it's moving out of state or just like, say you're a high school kid and your, your significant other is texting you that you only wanna spend time with your friends and not me constantly texting you, wanting to know where you are, how come you don't wanna spend time with me?

Um, you know, it's, it's, it's this manipulation of you should only care about me and spend less time with them. They try to make you, um, go against your family, your friends, they want you isolated from everyone around you. That doesn't [00:58:00] mean physically, um, in a different location. It just means they just don't want you talking to them.

They want to pin them against you, uh, make you. Angry at them. Um, it, it's, it's hard to describe, but you don't even realize it's happening because you agree with the person who's giving you all this wonderful love and attention and, you know, it's, it's confusing. Yeah. Confusing. You're so special to that person that they want to have you around all the time, because you are that person to them.

So I can't imagine being younger, especially, I mean, we're all women of a certain age, but being younger and, and you have this attention, why would you, why would that ever be a bad thing that you mm-hmm. Spend time with me and I'm his priority and all that. It's incredibly confusing and hard to see. Yeah.

And in this day and age with social media, I mean, Gabby was a perfect example of how life looks. So wonderful. Mm-hmm. On, on screen. You know, you watch all these tiktoks and YouTube [00:59:00] channels and they're having a wonderful time, but there's. There's a problem going on behind the scenes, and they're not gonna tell anybody because they're ashamed.

They want everybody to have this image of them, even their families. Or if they're ashamed and embarrassed, they're not gonna go to anyone. So they're just gonna continue in the cycle to keep up that persona. And nowadays it's even worse because of social media. And I do see the numbers rising. I see homicides on the rise.

Uh, it's really awful. And, um, you know, we really have to push for more prevention work. Absolutely. Um, as you were saying, there seems to be even more cases of domestic violence. I know, uh, Laura Richards, yeah. She, um, talks a lot about coercive control, domestic violence, and she always makes it a point to look at articles about, you know, a perpetrator and instead of saying like, four time soccer player of the year.[01:00:00] 

As a domestic and you know, whatever. It's like their accolades and then what they've done, like domestic violence and that's just about it. And it can be the most terrible thing, but it's like rewording it in the media too. Just glossed over. Yeah. Yeah. But like, not looking at it as like, it's violence. It doesn't matter who, who's done this.

I don't know. It's like giving it to you in a softer way to hear about it, but it doesn't have the urgency as like, this person did this to another person. Um, yeah. So as you were talking about the statistics and stuff, I mean, you may not have an opinion on this, but do you think there is something that is causing more and more cases to happen, more and more murders to, um, be out there?

Um, related to domestic violence? I mean, I don't, I don't know 100%, but I think it has something to do with social media and media in general. The news media. Um. Normalizing gender-based violence because it is happening more to [01:01:00] women. Yes, it happens to men and it happens in the L-G-B-T-Q community, but it's happening mostly to women.

The homicides are mostly male on female homicides. Yeah. And I really think that we need to step up as, as women and find out why this is happening and stand against it and make changes. We have to ask our legislators to hold perpetrators accountable. I think that if somebody is non-fat strangled, it should not be a misdemeanor.

It should be attempted murder. I mean, it, it's absolutely you. You could kill that person very easily with a very minimal pounds of pressure on their neck. So yeah, we need to change the laws. I can't remember the statistic, Mandy, maybe you do, but the likelihood of somebody killing you if they've strangled you, it's like 500 and something.

750%. Okay. Yes. Even higher than I would thinking. It's insane. Every time I hear that one it like absolutely blows my mind because we have talked about on the podcast and heard so [01:02:00] many stories where strangulation or being choked is a precursor to someone's murder and it really is just so like stark to hear like how that just, that alone is just very telling of what's to come.

If there is no intervention and nothing changes and just absolutely terrifying to hear that number. They are the most dangerous people that walk the earth. Will kill at some point. If they're strangling at any point, they will kill. And it doesn't have to be by strangulation. Um, you're talking about ma mass shooters or have strangled in the past or have killed, you know, small animals, things like that.

Um, you know, there's definitely a profile and I think that maybe there's something we can do better as a society to recognize the signs and intervene early so we can prevent this. Yeah. This wasn't really on our list to talk about, but I did have one question. As a mom, and we're both moms and we have teenagers, is there a [01:03:00] conversation that we should be having with our kids?

What to look out for? I mean, besides the red flags, like what, what's a conversation that would make sense for us to have? Because you don't wanna scare your kids, but you want your kids to know they can come to you and like you were talking about, sometimes they feel embarrassed or anything like that. Is that Oh, yeah.

Anything you'd suggest. I think just keeping that open communication with your kid, it's hard to be a parent and a friend at the same time, but especially with girls, we have to very tread lightly because they don't wanna tell us that stuff. And yeah, if their friends are going through something, they're kind of like, who do I tell?

Who do I tell? But if you let them know that it's safe to tell you because you're not gonna react in a negative way, but you can offer them resources to help. Um, or just say, Hey, if you ever wanna have a conversation about what's healthy and not healthy, just being very open, um, starting the conversation, but letting them maybe continue it and being a [01:04:00] really good listener.

Um, got it. Love that. And learning together that, yeah, learning together I that piece advice to, um, to, as the parent to try and at least open the door for the conversation and then letting them, you know, take it as far as they wanna take it. I think that's really important because I know when I was growing up as a teenage girl, that was always one thing.

I always thought, like, there were things I wanted to bring up to my mom or to my parents, but I wasn't really sure how. But then if she would actually specifically say, Hey, if you wanna ever talk about this, and then I'd be like, you know, actually I do. So I just didn't know how to get, you know, get there to actually bring that up.

But, um, I love that. That's a really good point to, um, start the conversation, open the door up yourself, and then see, you know, where the conversation leads. That's great. Yeah. Open that door and just be there and hopefully they feel safe to come to you because of you've given that opportunity to them. So yeah.

Great. That's awesome. Before we end our conversation with you, Nicole, um, we were wanting to just go [01:05:00] over maybe some resources for domestic violence victims and survivors. I know there, um, thankfully there is more resources out there now than there has been in the past. What are some resources that you think are the top resources?

There are so many resources at our fingertips these days. First of all, obviously there's a domestic violence hotline. Um, you can call them, chat with them, go to the hotline.org and you can, um, message them on there. I know especially with the younger people, they don't typically pick up the phone and call, but that number is 807 9 9 safe.

If they do decide to, um, you don't have to call as a, uh, a victim or a survivor. You could also call for a friend or a family member if you need advice on how to handle something. And domestic shelters.org is a fantastic resource. They literally just. Everything's on there, everything's been put together so beautifully on there.

You can also go to gabby petito foundation.org. We do have, um, a whole page of [01:06:00] hotlines and some resources on there for you. Um, you know, these days there's no excuse not to browse around and, you know, search if, if you need to a safe place to search, you can go to the library. You can do it at school or at work.

Um, if you don't wanna do it on your phone, if you're in a situation that's important to think about, um, you know, because perpetrators do watch electronically. So, yeah, just definitely, um, there are resources out there. Just know that you're not alone and I, I encourage people to reach out for help.

Absolutely. We learned just making a domestic violence awareness page on our website. Mm-hmm. Um, Haley had mentioned making a quick click so if somebody's on it reading resources, they can go to the weather page. And so we have some of those on there and it's not something I would've thought about, but obviously if somebody's looking into this, they're trying to be as careful as possible.

So I just think we are coming a far way or a long way with this, but [01:07:00] obviously there's more for us to learn and more for us to do. Yeah, for sure. Nicole, I don't know if there's anything else you want to say, but if you wanna leave us with something about Gabby or a favorite memory, anything like that, we'd love to hear it.

Sure. I just, I encourage people to be kind to one another. You know, Gabby was definitely a free spirit. She had a big heart and she wanted to travel the world because she loved people. So, um, I highly encourage people to just, you don't know what someone's going through. Spread kindness. Um, and definitely help us out at Gabby Petito Foundation because we have a lot of work to do and we're trying to get an education program in schools.

Oh, wow. Um, it's gonna be a big feat, but we do it. That'd be amazing. Yeah. Oh, we're gonna do it. It's so important. Oh my goodness. Yeah. And, uh, we're building a training program for first responders that will expand to police, uh, officer personnel, 9 1 1 dispatchers, people in the [01:08:00] court system, and hopefully community members, just everyone can be, you know, educated and an advocate.

Yeah. Domestic violence. So, and share those missing flyers, you know, as much as possible because families need that help. Yeah. Well, thank you so much beyond anything we could ever thank you. You are amazing. And we really just, I don't know, I can't wait to see what more you guys do with your foundation.

And I just, we both appreciate you taking the time to speak to us and to speak to our audience. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate [01:09:00] it.