The Rust Shooting Tragedy: The Murder of Halayna Hutchins, The Prop Gun, and The Unanswered Question (Part 1)

This is a story that shocked the world: Alec Baldwin, a prop gun, and a tragic death on a movie set. While most people know the basics, the death of Halyna Hutchins is far more complex than the initial headlines revealed. In this first part of a two-episode series, we break down the disastrous chain of events on the set of Rust, from the allegations of negligence to a series of ignored warnings that led to an entirely preventable tragedy. 

We discuss the investigation into where the live rounds came from, including the armor and prop company, and the FBI's findings that the ammunition did not come from the supplier. One thing was certain: the armorer, Hannah, was responsible for ensuring no live rounds were on set and failed in that job. Join us for Part 2, available in your feed, as we continue to break down this captivating and heartbreaking case.

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TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] This is a story that made headlines around the world. Alec Baldwin, a Prop Gun, and a Tragic Death on a movie set. Most people know the basics of the story, but what happened to Helena Hutchins is far more complex than the initial headlines ever revealed. In today's episode, we're breaking down the story behind Rust, how it came together, and how it went wrong.

This wasn't just an accident. It was the result of a series of failures, ignored warnings, and alleged negligence that ended in an entirely preventable tragedy. Hey guys, and welcome to the Moms and Mysteries podcast. A True Crime Podcast featuring myself, Mandy, and my dear friend Melissa. Hi, Melissa. Hi, Mandy.

How are you? I am doing so great. I am singing from the rooftops. My kids are officially outta school. Your kids are officially outta school. School's out for summer, baby. We are officially out for summer. I'm [00:01:00] so, it's just like a sigh of relief that I, it is breathed today. It really is. I think I told you, I maybe on our bonus episode, I just was paranoid.

I was gonna somehow sleep through an alarm this week because it's finals and it's actually important in high school. You know, like all those things where you're like, I can't screw you up. So I just feel relieved, relieved, knowing like there's nothing on our agenda that. We have to be there at a certain time right now.

So right there, that's a, that's a break. Um, it just makes everything, everything better. Yes. Oh, it's so nice. And now we're going into a three day weekend, which we don't really have three day weekends, but our spouses do, so it makes it nice. Yeah. Yeah. So this is a great way to kick off the summer for us.

I'm, I'm excited. Me too. I'm actually, uh, yeah, now I'm looking forward to all the, I I, now that school is behind us, I feel like I'm actually getting more excited about all this fun summer things, you know, that, uh, my family loves to do. I mean, everyone's family loves to do fun summer things, but I don't know why I said it like that.

Like we're stuff, I don't know if you guys have heard of this [00:02:00] thing called water, right? Sometimes we like to put our feet in and swim. Well, it's true, but sometimes those can be also the most exhausting things you do in the year's. True. Everything water and unrelated. But yeah, I'm excited. We're gonna have a good summer, all of us.

I'm claiming it for everyone. We're all gonna have a good summer this year. So claim it. Claim it, believe it, receive it. Um, yeah, so I'm excited to get into this episode this week. I learned. So much. Yeah. I am super excited to get into the episode this week because as we kind of said, and most people probably heard in the beginning, this is a pop, uh, popular and pretty well known story, but there's way more to this story than I ever so much knew.

And I did recently start, I think it's on Netflix. Is it on Netflix? The documentary? I thought it was on Hulu or there is one on Hulu. Right. And I started, I didn't end up finishing watching that whole documentary, um, but I did start watching it before. I started working on this episode, like I watched it when it first came out, or I started watching.

I don't know what happened. You know, that's what always happens to me, Melissa. I [00:03:00] start watching a TV show. I go to sleep or I doze off, or somehow I never finish anything. I start, so Hulu is notorious though, for not like having a great continue watching. So you'll just straight up forget about it if you were tired when you watched it, and that's kind of what happened, I'm sure with this.

Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't realize, you know, that there was. So much more to this story. Of course, we all heard, like just saw the headlines that came out and it was just a very sensational story at the time, but. There's so much to get into with it. Mm-hmm. And that's why, as you'll see when you clicked on this, this, uh, today's episode says part one, but there's also gonna be a part two available today for you that you can listen to right after this.

We're gonna release 'em both at the same time, um, just breaking it up into two parts because it is a lot. This is actually the longest episode. Yeah, we've ever done on this podcast. It was the most research and it is the longest. So we're gonna break it up into two parts just to make it a little more palatable and easier to digest, because there's really a lot to get into.

[00:04:00] So we'll go right into part one and after this is over, you can click right on part two. So, as we said at the top of the episode, we are diving into the details of the horribly tragic accident on the set of the movie Rust that resulted in the death of Helena Hutchins, who was the director of photography on this Western film.

The part that most people remember about the story is that actor Alec Baldwin and several others found themselves at the center of a criminal investigation. But the story of Helena Hutchins is often overlooked. And before we get into the chain of events that led to her death, we do wanna take a moment to talk about exactly who she was.

Helena was born on April 10th, 1979 in Ukraine and raised on a Soviet military base in the Arctic Circle. Which immediately, like you are just a much stronger person than I am. Right off immediately. Yeah. Yeah. So this was a very isolated and just brutally cold environment. But Helena spent her time indoors watching a lot of movies, and these movies included [00:05:00] everything from propaganda films to World War I Dramas, anything and everything.

She just loved all of it. This early love of movies really stuck with her, but at first she did pursue a different path in life. She earned a graduate degree in international journalism from Kiev National University, and then she began her career working on British documentary productions across Europe.

She worked for outlets like the BBC and Discovery, and she frequently traveled to remote locations, and that's really how she found herself drawn more to the visual artistry behind the story than the storytelling itself. Eventually, Helena moved to New York and found work as a production assistant before moving into grip electric roles on indie films and music videos.

At one point, she explored fashion photography, but it was lighting that really captured her imagination, and she just loved the way it could influence mood and emotion. And as someone who had really always been driven by the characters and the [00:06:00] storytelling, this transition into cinematography just seemed like the perfect fit for her.

After meeting a cinematographer on a set, Helena applied to the American Film Institute and was accepted. She later described her time there as absolutely amazing and said it pushed her to really refine her vision and to learn how to truly collaborate with others in the creative process. She graduated in 2015 and quickly began to build an impressive resume.

She worked on several projects including Arch Enemy with actor Joe Manganello, who later praised her as both a creative force and a steady presence under pressure. By 2019, Helena was named one of American Cinematographers Rising Stars, and two years later she was hired as the director of photography for a new Western film called Rust.

And this gig would be a major turning point in Helena's budding career. Helena lived in Los Angeles with her husband, Matthew, and their young son, Andros. Those who knew her, described her [00:07:00] as ambitious, playful, and deeply passionate about her work. She loved extreme sports like parachuting and cave exploration, and one friend said that she just had this mischievous streak and a really great sense of humor.

Anytime somebody's described us having like loving extreme sports like parachuting. Sure. There's stuff like that cave exploration always just like is same off the map for me. I'm just like, oh my gosh, this lady is so cool and she's just. Able to do all these things I could never even dream of. So fun.

It's incredible fun. Yeah. Yeah. Helena's husband said her ambition was actually something he really admired from the start. And the couple's marriage was described by a friend as being a beautiful partnership where they both supported each other's dreams and Matt made a lot of sacrifices to enable Helena to do what she was doing with her work.

The rest movie was supposed to be a gritty western set in Kansas in the 1880s. The story follows a 13-year-old boy named Lucas, who accidentally kills a rancher, and after being convicted of the murder, [00:08:00] his estranged grandfather, who was actually an infamous outlaw named Harland Rust, broke Lucas out of prison, and the two of them went on the run in the movie.

They are also pursued by a US marshal and a bounty hunter. Alec Baldwin was cast as Harland Rust and Jensen Ackles was originally set to play the Marshall in the movie right from the beginning. It's a Western and Rust is really being written as this gun heavy film. In a 2020 interview, Alec Baldwin compared the Clint Eastwood movie, unforgiven to Rust, and he joked that his quote, gun slinging and horseback riding skills were always at the ready.

He said that he was an actor of the old school and he performed a wide variety of real talents on screen. This movie was to be filmed at Bonanza Creek Movie Ranch, which is about eight miles south of Santa Fe, New Mexico. And this ranch wasn't just some random location with a really cool name, Bonanza Creek.

Yeah, I love it. I didn't know [00:09:00] anything like this existed, and like, honestly, I think one of like my favorite things is finding out that they have entire like. Movie ranches, like whole movie stuff. Like I just wanna go there for no reason. Just to walk around and like, and explore. Yeah. And just hang out there.

I, I just wanna see if like a tumbleweed just randomly comes out if they're like magical in this area or if they're just natural. So this ranch though, wasn't really a random location. It. A massive sprawling movie set that's actually been used for decades, and it has a long list of westerns that were shot there, including many classics.

The property spans thousands of acres and includes a movie town, home sets, rolling hills, livestock, and more. It's considered to be an iconic location for filming period pieces and westerns. The budget for the movie rest though, was modest. It was coming in at just under $8 million. It still attracted a number of industry professionals.

Not only was Alec Baldwin going to be the star of this movie, he [00:10:00] was also an executive producer and contributed to the writing of the film. Joel Souza served as the writer and director. Helena Hutchins was brought on as the director of photography. This was her first time working with the Rust Production team.

So there are some other key members, um, from the crew, and they were David Halls, which was the film's assistant director Sarah Zachary, who was a prop master, and Jensen Ackles, who actually left the project after Helena's death. One of the most important roles on a set like this, as you can imagine, would be the role of the armorer.

It was a very big job given how many guns were actually involved in this film. This responsibility was given to 24-year-old Hannah Gutierrez Reed, who was the stepdaughter of a well-known Hollywood armorer named Fell Reed. Though Hannah had come from this family with experience in the field, she was actually still very new to the role herself.

In fact, Russ was only her second [00:11:00] job as lead armorer. She was also tasked with assisting in the prop department. Which meant her attention would be split between two critical jobs. So before we get into the chaos that eventually unfolded on the set of rust, we need to talk about the role that firearms played in the making of this movie, because that part is crucial to understanding exactly what went wrong and how it went wrong.

Like many westerns, rust was written to feature a lot of guns. And when it comes to filming scenes in involving firearms, productions have two options. They can either use rubber or replica guns, or they can use real working guns, which. Actually does blow my mind. The producers of Rust chose the latter.

They opted to use real functional firearms despite the obvious risk that comes with making a decision like that. But it's also not unheard of either. Real guns are used in the movies all the time because, well. They look and sound authentic on screen, right, but they are never [00:12:00] supposed to be loaded with real ammunition at any point, and that's a hard and fast rule in the industry for a very good reason.

Tragedies have happened before, most notably in the case of Brandon Lee, who was killed on the set of the crow when a real gun loaded with improperly cleared dummy rounds was fired. So how does using real guns work? You know, when it's done correctly, there are actually two main types of ammunition for the purpose of filming a movie, and they are blanks and dummy rounds.

Blanks are cartridges that don't contain, contain any projectile. It's not gonna fire anything. They're just used to create a sound or like a flash to simulate a gunshot without actually firing anything out of the gun. A dummy round, on the other hand, looks like a real bullet. You know, this is great to use in closeup shots, but they just don't really, uh, function the way a real bullet would.

Many of them just contain a small metal ball inside of it, like a bb, so. Those types of dummy rounds are really easy to identify by just shaking them and listening to see if you hear it. You know, making the little shaking [00:13:00] noise if there's something inside as we go on. Don't you feel like there should be more to this hundred?

A shaking test When I was like, there needs to be a very marking on the outside. That's absolutely to me that they look, but then you understand if they're using it in a movie production and they want it. They're gonna have a close up shot of someone loading bullets or, you know, or dealing with ammo. You don't want it to have like a orange ring around it or something, but like, still, you know.

True. I mean, yeah. I don't know. There has to be a, a better way to mark those. Yeah, that's, that's wild to me. So in addition to using this fake ammunition, there are safety protocols around firearms and filmmaking that apply to everybody on the set, not just the actors and armorers. And some of the key rules that should have been followed in on this set and on any set is that number one, there should be no live ammunition anywhere near a movie production.

All the guns that are on the set should be treated as if they are loaded at all times. That's just one of like the basic rules of being around [00:14:00] firearms at all period. Um, and same as guns should never be pointed at anyone, even during rehearsals. I actually learned that in when they're making movies, they just use like camera angles and visual effects to kind of create the illusion that a gun is being aimed.

In a certain direction when it actually isn't, and it's actually being aimed in a safe direction for the filming of this movie. And if a scene truly does require pointing a gun toward the camera or towards a person, and there will be a protective barrier used to shield anybody that you know might be behind the lens.

Yeah. Only the armorer in a movie production should ever be loading or unloading a weapon. And that same person must inspect the gun before and after ever use. Nobody should place a finger on the trigger of any gun unless they're ready to shoot it. And firearm training is mandatory for everyone who will be handling any firearms on set.

If a production involves a lot of guns, then an experienced firearms expert must be present to oversee safety at all times. And. These are not optional protocols. They're of course there to protect [00:15:00] lives, but on the set of rust, as you'll see when we get into the story more, those rules were just repeatedly ignored or flat out broken.

And we're gonna talk about all the ways that happened after a quick break to hear a word from this week's sponsors. Now back to the episode. So before the break, we were breaking down basically how it works on a movie set when there are these real guns, but they're having dummy ammunition and blanks and kind of learning this whole process.

Who needs to be where and why when it comes to, especially the death of Helena Hutchins. So rest began filming on October 6th, 2021, with plans to wrap up up in early November, but just over two weeks in. Production would come to a halt on October 21st. After a lunch break, the casting crew gathered inside the sets church building to rehearse the scene.

The goal was to line up the camera for a closeup shot of Alec Baldwin cross drawing his revolver. This was a camera rehearsal, only meaning [00:16:00] they were really just trying to confirm the framing and positioning of the shot. There was actually no plan to fire the weapon. According to industry protocol. Alec should have been using a fake or a replica gun during this type of rehearsal, but instead, he was handed a real 45 caliber single action six shot revolver.

Earlier that day, the camera crew had walked off the set due to safety and working condition complaints, which actually prompted a last minute crew to step in. And because of this, there was only one camera that was available for the scene that morning. The assistant director, Dave Halls, asked the Armorer Hannah to prep Alex Revolver.

She reportedly loaded it with dummy rounds before lunch and when the crew took their lunch breaks. The firearms, including Alex was stored in the prop truck safe nearby. Just outside the set was Hannah's cart that held things like leather, holsters, [00:17:00] belts, and ammunition. This cart was actually left unsecured and unattended during the break, which is a detail that becomes very important.

Later. After lunch, Hannah went to the truck and retrieved Alex's revolver and brought it back to the set, but she did not perform a second safety check on the gun. There are two slightly conflicting accounts about what happened next, but the bottom line in both these scenarios is that protocol and safety checks were not done properly.

In one version, Hannah handed Dave Halls an unloaded firearm showed it was empty, and later loaded it with dummy rounds. In the other version, the gun was already loaded when she handed it over. Either way, Hannah did not remove and inspect each round in front of Dave, which is a very critical part of the safety protocol.

Dave didn't ask Hannah to do it, and Hannah didn't do it. Hannah also failed to show Alec the firearm or confirm its contents with him, and Alec [00:18:00] didn't ask to see the rounds either, which again is supposed to be part of this standard procedure. After Hannah handed over the gun, she left the church set and Dave Halls handed the revolver to Alec while shouting Cold Gun, which is a term used on film sets to indicate that the firearm contains no live round and it's safe to use.

But of course, that wasn't the case. Inside the church set, Alec Baldwin took his mark on a pew seated just two feet away from several crew members, including Director Joel Souza, camera operator, Reed Russell, and cinematographer Helena Hutchins. No one was wearing any protective gear. There was no ear protection, no goggles.

There was really no reason to have that because there was no expectation that a gun would be fired during this rehearsal at all. The team was simply trying to work out the camera positioning and figure out how to eliminate a shadow in the shot as they adjusted the frame. Alec rehearsed this cross draw move for the scene according to multiple accounts.

He said something like, so [00:19:00] I'm gonna take this thing out, pull it, and go, bang. Helena and Joel were directing him through the motion and confirming what he was supposed to be doing. Suddenly, Alec then reached across his body with his right hand to draw the revolver from the holster on his left side. He raised the gun, pointed it directly at Helena, and pulled back the hammer, pulling back.

The hammer actually was not in the script, and yet when Alec released it, the gun fired Helena was struck in the chest with a live round that passed through her body and then hit Joel Souza in the shoulder. The bullet ultimately lodged in Joel's back just under two inches from his spine. In the moments immediately after the shot, no one really realized exactly what had happened.

Everybody heard a loud bang, but without ear protection or any warning, they just assumed that the blank in the weapon had maybe misfired. It wasn't until they saw blood pouring from Helena's chest that the horrific reality of the situation started to sink in. [00:20:00] Crew members rushed to help and stop the bleeding as Alec Baldwin reportedly went into shock and just started shouting.

You know what? The F just happened? He placed the gun on a nearby pew, and according to lawsuits that were filed later, Alec did not attempt to render aid, but instead just was completely stunned in disbelief, and he just kept repeating the same question over and over, which I can't imagine. The chaos of that whole thing.

Yeah. And just, I can totally understand how nobody really caught onto exactly what was going on in that moment. Uh, after you're thinking like you're not, the last thing on your mind would be like that. This was a real gunshot. Especially after the person handed you and said it was a cold gun, and you're thinking like we're on a movie set, like this isn't even real.

Right. What's really going on? Like, I can't even imagine just trying to process all of that in. Yeah. In a moment's notice at 1:48 PM script supervisor Mamie Mitchell, who was [00:21:00] inside the church at the time of the rehearsal, dialed 9 1 1 in the call, she reported that two people had been accidentally shot by a prop gun on a movie set.

She specifically used the term prop gun, even though the weapon was in fact a real revolver. Mamie said they were rehearsing and the gun went off, and then she ran outside along with everyone else. Emergency responders arrived quickly and Helena was airlifted to the hospital. She tragically passed away from her injuries.

Joel was taken by ambulance where he was later treated and released. The bullet that was lodged in his back was recovered and sent for testing. It appeared to be from a live round, but further analysis was needed to confirm that the set of rest was immediately shut down, and the investigation into how a live bullet ended up in Alec Baldwin's gun was just beginning.

When local authorities first arrived at Bonanza Creek Ranch on October 21st, 2021, they only knew that [00:22:00] two people had accidentally been shot during a film rehearsal. What wasn't immediately clear was how it happened or whether a live round had been involved. One of the first investigators on the scene spoke with the armor, Hannah Gutierrez Reed.

When he found her, she was holding a revolver in her left hand with the muzzle pointed downward. She was visibly emotional and increasingly agitated. The investigator took the gun from her and put her in the backseat of a patrol car with the door open. He asked if there were any additional weapons, and Hannah pointed to a nearby area where the officer found two more handguns along with a mix of spent and intact rounds of ammunition.

There were two white boxes labeled 45 Colt Rounds, and Hannah pointed at one of the boxes, which was half full and told the investigator. Those are the rounds used today. And of course, all of this is being collected as evidence. Authorities also found a substantial amount of ammunition on [00:23:00] set, including dummy rounds, blanks, and suspected live rounds, which of course shouldn't be there at all.

Alec voluntarily approached the officers at the scene and said he wanted to talk to them because he was the one who had fired this gun. An officer asked Alec if he was okay, and he said, no, I'm not actually. He said he was willing to stay and help however he could. He was very shaken up and even mentioned that his hands were shaking, but he was fully cooperative with police at the scene.

As investigators began interviewing more of the crew members, it started to become clear that there had actually been multiple problems on set. Johns yellow, the key rigging grip, told investigators that safety protocols had not been followed during the entire production, and the team had been cutting every corner that they could.

Another crew member said that Hannah wasn't even union certified as an armorer and that she had previously even asked him for help in dealing with problems involving these same cult 45 revolver used in [00:24:00] the shooting. He said the weapons were in poor condition, but he acknowledged that Hannah was doing her best to try and maintain them.

Then the film's Prop Master Sarah Zachery told police that she believed Hannah May have made a mistake when checking those dummy rounds. She was supposed to inspect each round individually by shaking it to listen for that telltale BB sound. But Sarah Zachery explained that if you shake two bullets at once, you can't tell which one is rattling.

And a small oversight like that could lead to a live brown being mistaken for a dummy round and making its way into a gun. Shortly after the shooting, Alec Baldwin, Hannah and Dave Halls were all asked to go to the police station for formal interviews. They each went voluntarily and cooperated with the detectives.

During Hannah's interview, she told detectives that she had checked the rounds in Alex Revolver earlier that day before they took the lunch break. She claimed to have inspected them one by one, shaking each round to make sure they rattled and to be sure they were dummy rounds and not live ammunition.

During the interview, [00:25:00] she did say, I wish I would've checked it more. She said that there were three firearms on set that day. One was the gun that fired the fatal shot. One was a non-functioning 45 caliber revolver, and one was a plastic prop gun that couldn't fire a projectile at all. Before lunch. All three of those guns were stored in a locked safe in the prop truck, and only a few crew members had access to that safe.

But the ammunition, which included dummy rounds was left unsecured on the cart at the set. Hannah said that after lunch, the prop master, Sarah Zachary, took the guns out of the safe and handed them back to her, and those guns were then placed back on the prop cart ready for use. Hannah said the dummy rounds had been supplied by Seth Kenny, who owned PDQ Arm and Prop, which was a prop weapons company based in Albuquerque.

At one point in this interview, Hann was shown a photo taken at the hospital of the bullet that was recovered from Joel Sue's back and asked if there was any [00:26:00] concern that this might be a live round, and at firsthand looked at it and said it looked like a blank one, but then she took a second look and said That might be a regular round though.

Ugh. So at the station, assistant director Dave Halls gave his statement to detectives, which closely aligned with Hannah's statement. According to Dave, when the crew returned from lunch, Hannah placed all three firearms on the prop cart just outside the church set. Dave then picked up the revolver and brought it inside to Alec.

As he handed it over to him, he called out cold gun to indicate that the gun was safe and unloaded. Dave said he had no idea the gun contained live ammunition. After the shooting, Dave picked up the gun from the church pew and brought it to Hannah, who opened it for him to inspect. Inside he saw at least four dummy rounds, which were identifiable by small holes on their sides, and one casing that lacked that hole.

That round looked [00:27:00] different from the others. It didn't have a cap on it. And then Hannah removed the spent casing. When deputies arrived, Hannah handed the gun over to them directly. Alec Baldwin also sat for a lengthy interview. At this point, he's still thinking that. The accident was caused by a blank, not alive round, but when investigators showed in the photo of the bullet, they recovered and told him that it appeared to be real ammo.

Alec was visibly shocked. He maintained that he had no idea the gun was dangerous, and repeatedly stated that it was Hannah. Not Dave who handed him the firearm. He said that during a rehearsal, the gun should have been empty with no ammo of any kind inside. And since the crew believed it was a cold gun, they let their guard down, people were even standing in positions they wouldn't be in, and nobody was wearing safety gear.

Alec described the moment that the gun discharged. He said the director wanted him to slowly and dramatically draw the revolver for the [00:28:00] scene, and Alec was demonstrating the movement when the weapon fired. Alec was visibly shaken during his interview and said that learning he may have rehearsed with a gun that had a live bullet inside was the most horrifying thing he'd ever heard in his life.

Alec further said that he was sickened by what had happened. According to Alec, there had been no previous use of firearms on set, at least to his knowledge. The only trouble he knew of onset was that several crew members had walked off the production. After their interviews, Alec, Hannah and Dave were all allowed to leave and no charges were filed as authorities said they needed to continue their investigation.

In the short span of time between lunch ending and the shooting, at least four major violations of industry safety standards took place, and these violations collectively created the conditions that allowed for Helena's death. Firstly, Hannah as the lead. Armorer was the only person who should have ever handled the firearms.

Once the [00:29:00] weapons were prepped for use, they were not supposed to leave her sight. She should have been the one to hand Alec Baldwin the revolver. But instead, Dave took the gun from the cart and handed it to Alec himself, which he was never authorized to do. Second, Hannah and Dave were both obligated to conduct at least two safety checks together and in Alex's presence.

Dave was supposed to oversee safety in collaboration with the armorer, but he wasn't supposed to actually handle the weapon himself. Just observe as Hannah inspected each round in front of him, and he was supposed to confirm visually that the firearm contained only blanks or dummy rounds. The armorer was supposed to physically remove and inspect each round one by one in the presence of the assistant director and the actor and the assistant director would then announce that the weapon was cold to everyone on set.

None of those things happened on October 21st, and if just one of those steps had been adhered to, the presence of a live 45 caliber round would've been immediately discovered, and Helena Hutchins would still be alive, [00:30:00] but there were a number of other failures as well. Alec Baldwin violated one of the basic firearm safety rules by pointing the revolver directly in Hannah and Joel's direction.

Police noted that it didn't matter whether this was done under Helena's direction or not. The first rule of gun safety is simple. You never point a firearm at someone you don't intend to shoot. And the second rule of gun safety is to always assume a gun is loaded. Those rules apply whether you're on a movie set or not.

They're in the standard rules of gun safety, which Alec, who had decades of experience with firearms. On set was definitely aware of furthermore, if Hannah had been on the set like she was supposed to, instead of going back outside after handing off the gun, she could have corrected the situation, stopped the rehearsal, or prevented the gun from being used at all, but she just simply was not there.

The absence of proper checks, proper supervision and safety protocols led to a live bullet making its way into Alex's hand, and the consequences were fatal. And we have more to get into after one [00:31:00] last break to hear a word from this week's sponsors. Now back to the episode. So before the break, we were kind of discussing all the different ways that this went wrong on the rust set.

Uh, between the armor, the assistant director Alec, everyone's made a ton of mistakes and the police are trying to piece it all together to see what actually happened. So as news of the shooting began to spread, public reaction was quick and emotional. Helena's death shook the entire film industry. Her talent agency innovative artist, released a heartfelt statement in her memory that read in part Helena Hutchins was a ray of light, always smiling, always hopeful her talent was immense, only surpassed by the love she had for her family.

All of us at innovative artists are heartbroken. We mourn for her family and we hope this tragedy will reveal new lessons for how to better ensure safety for every crew member on set. The REST production team also issued a statement that read the entire [00:32:00] casting crew has been absolutely devastated by today's tragedy.

We have Haled a production on the film for an undetermined period of time and are fully cooperating with the Santa Fe Police Department's investigation. We will be providing counseling services to everyone connected to the film as we work to. This awful event, it was clear that the production of this movie wasn't going to restart anytime soon.

I actually never thought it was going to continue. It does, but it was really, it just seemed like in that moment, nothing was gonna ever come of this. So in addition to the ongoing criminal investigation by the Santa Fe Sheriff's Office, the incident was classified as a workplace accident. Which triggered a separate investigation by the New Mexico Environment Department's.

Occupational Health and Safety Bureau. Federal authorities also got involved. So while the police focus on the possibility of criminal charges, other agencies were digging into what the production had done or failed to [00:33:00] do to keep the workers safe. Within three days of the shooting, Russ producers sent out a letter to the crew, announced that they had decided to wrap the set until the investigation was complete.

This was a pause rather than an end into the production, but no additional details were given. In reality though, for many of the cast and crew members, rust was over and in the days and weeks following Helena's death, people across the film industry and beyond were calling for answers. While injuries and deaths on set have happened before, they are rare and shocking when they do happen.

According to the Associated Press from 1990 to 2014, there were at least 194 serious onset accidents in the US, including 43 deaths. The tragedy also reignited this long standing debate about why real guns are even used in the filmmaking industry in the first place. Especially when technology has evolved to the point that realistic effects can easily be added in [00:34:00] post-production.

One of the first families to speak out publicly was of course that of Brandon Lee, the son of Bruce Lee, who was killed in 1993 on the set of the crow after being fatally wounded with a prop gun. For them, Helena's death was like deja vu, and a painful reminder that not enough had changed. Other people in the industry shared the same sentiments.

ABC's, the rookie announced that they would no longer be using quarter or half loads, essentially distancing themselves from the use of real firearms altogether. Then a group of cinematographers wrote a powerful letter calling for a complete ban on the use of functional firearms on set. The letter said, quote, we won't sit back and wait for the industry to change.

We have a duty to effect change within the industry ourselves. They also vowed to no longer knowingly work on projects that use real working guns during production. And I gotta say, I completely agree that it's crazy that we are using real guns that even fire projectile on [00:35:00] movie sets in in this day, and it's unreal.

In this particular case, they had a available, uh, you know, a replica prop gun, and they had a plastic gun and they had other options. And I am just, one of the things I struggled to understand with this case is why they were even, they weren't even filming a real scene. They were just practicing. Why did Alec Baldwin have.

Why did he need that gun that he had? Why couldn't he have? He could have had a banana plastic one. Exactly. If they were not even, they weren't even filming the shot for the movie. Right. They were just lining things up and trying to rehearse. So yeah, why did he have a gun that could fire anything? Right.

For that pur, you know, for that, it just seems really irresponsible. Like if you're not even filming the scene, why do you need to have it? It's just horrible. Helena's husband, Matt eventually joined into this conversation as well. In the midst of his grief, he became an advocate for onset safety and pushed for more regulations surrounding the [00:36:00] use of firearms in film, and he insisted that change was necessary to prevent another family going through what his had gone through.

People everywhere were watching closely in asking the same questions. How could something this devastating still happen in an industry that should absolutely know better? The day after the shooting, investigators talked to Joel Souza, who had been released from the hospital but was recovering from that gunshot wound to his shoulder.

Joel said that the day of the shooting started off like any other day. Call. Time was around 6:30 AM and the crew met for breakfast on the property as per usual. Joel said that to his knowledge, everything seemed normal among the crew that morning, and there was no tension that he was aware of. But at some point there was a major disruption when the camera crew walked off the job.

Doesn't that feel like there was a little bit of tension? There must have been some signs, Joel? Yeah. Yeah. As a result of this walkout, the production team had to really scramble to bring in replacements, and because of all this, they only had one [00:37:00] camera available for use that particular day, and those limited resources had really slowed everything down.

Joel said the crew had been prepping for the scene all morning, but took a break for lunch around 1230. Since meals were taken offsite, everyone had to be shuttled away from the set, and when they returned from lunch, they were going to rehearse the shot in the church set. As I said before, no actual filming was being done in this rehearsal, and Joel was standing next to Helena looking at the frame through the camera monitor.

As Alec rehearsed the motion, Joel said he remembered Hannah giving Alec the gun, which you know, as we've kind of been saying, there's kind of some question about who handed Alec the gun, right? He said that he was standing just over Helena's shoulder and he heard what was described as a whip, followed by a loud pop.

Helena reacted instantly by clutching her midsection and saying that her stomach hurt. As she began to stumble backwards and other crew members rushed to help lower her to the ground, Joel then realized that he had been [00:38:00] shot as well. He was bleeding from his shoulder and he could then see that Helena also had blood on her Joel's account confirmed many key details for the investigators, especially the timeline of events.

As the investigation continued, authorities turned to one of the key witnesses, Russ's cameraman Reid Russell. He had actually been standing close to Joel Souza and Helena Hutchins when the gun was discharged. He said the atmosphere onset that day was generally positive, and he spoke highly of Alec Baldwin when asked about his handling of firearms.

He did recall a separate scene from earlier in the production where Alec had gone out of his way to be cautious and even made sure no children were near him during a previous gunfire scene. From Reed's perspective, Alec had been very careful with weapons throughout the shoot that day. Reed arrived early for breakfast, but he had more work than usual because about six people had walked off the set.

He said these people were frustrated over issues [00:39:00] with pay and housing and that the group who left submitted a formal letter to the production outlining their grievances. Because of this walkout, Reid had to cover a lot of extra ground that day, and he stepped away from the set for a few minutes after lunch.

When he returned, the scene was already being staged. Alec Joel, an Lina were already in position and the revolver was already in Alec's possession. Reed did not witness any of the safety checks and couldn't confirm whether the gun was inspected during the time he was away. Reed then explained that they were adjusting the camera to deal with a shadow that was interfering with the shot.

At the time the gun was fired, Reid didn't see exactly what happened. He just remembered seeing Joel covered in blood and hearing Helena say she couldn't feel her legs before medics rushed in and. In treating her as she lay bleeding on the floor. On October 22nd, just one day after the shooting, Alec Baldwin broke his silence in a public tweet.

He [00:40:00] expressed deep sorrow and heartbreak over Helena's death. It read. There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Helena, a wife. Mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I'm fully cooperating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred, and I'm in touch with her husband offering my support to him and his family.

My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Helena. So it was very clear that Alec was cooperating with the authorities and he was just as devastated as everyone else. But of course, people wondered whether or not he would face any criminal charges for what happened. There's this one like infamous picture from that day.

I don't know if you've seen it. It's Alec on the phone like. Clearly hysterical outside. It's like, I guess it must have been a paparazzi shot or something. I don't know how, how it was taken, but it is like, I know he's a good actor and everything, but it is just, you can see it all over his face, like shock and just Amish.

I can't imagine. I really just can't imagine, uh, being, being Alec in [00:41:00] this situation. So many people in this situation, I can't imagine like having the, playing the part that I played, but man, like that. I do, but my heart goes out to Alec Baldwin, honestly. 'cause this truly is like, honestly, all of it is, like you said in the beginning, very, it could have been avoided.

Yes. But man, I just, I do feel like everyone was very much affected by this. Yes, absolutely. Of course, Helen family the most. Of course, of course. Yeah. I mean it's, it's really such a horrible tragedy. So Santa Fe County District attorney Mary Carmack, Alise, addressed that question head on. She said that she actually was not ruling out charges against anyone involved at that point, but explained that the investigation was still focused on a ma few major questions, such as what kind of round had been in the gun that killed Helena, where had it come from, and who had placed it inside the revolver.

She noted that the investigators had found a large number of bullets on set, and they were still sorting through them to determine which were blanks, which were dummies, or which were live rounds, and that process was gonna take a little bit of [00:42:00] time. At that point, interviews were still being conducted and the whole process could take weeks or even months before they were able to make any decisions, you know, regarding any criminal charges.

The DA also acknowledged the uniqueness of this case. She said that while they had seen complex cases before, you know they see strange cases all the time. It's not every day. You see a complex case with celebrities. Prominent people are involved in this as investigators work to determine exactly how a live round ended up in Alex Revolver lab results from the FBI started to come in.

It was learned that out of all the ammunition recovered from the rust set, five live rounds were identified. None of which should have ever been there. One of those rounds was seized directly from the armor or Hannah. When police arrived at the scene, two were found on top of the armor's cart, including the casing from the round that killed Helena.

One was located in a bandelier that was meant for actor gen ackles to wear, and [00:43:00] one more was discovered in. Baldwin's holster from inside the church. So of course the huge question is where did these live rounds come from? So investigators looked into PDQ Armand Prop, which was that company Hannah said, had supplied the dummy ammunition, the FBI visited the store and collected samples of their dummy rounds for testing.

The owner of the store is Seth Kinney told authorities that the dummies he had given to Rust had just been used on the set of 1883, and they were brought in from Texas the night before they were delivered to the rust production crew. Kenny insisted that all of the rounds were thoroughly inspected before being handed over.

He said he polished each one and rattled it to confirm that they were dummy rounds, not blanks, and definitely not live rounds. He specifically stated that he did not send out. Any dummy round that didn't rattle again with the please, let's come up with a better way. And the FBI found that Kenny was telling the truth though the live rounds found on the set of rust did not come from [00:44:00] PDQ.

But then of course, the question is. Where did it come from? It had to have been brought on set by someone, and even though the source of the live ammo was unknown, one thing was for certain, Hannah was the one responsible for ensuring that live rounds were never on set and she had failed in that job. So we're gonna end part one here.

We're going to pick right back up in part two. So that should be in your feed. Go on over. We are gonna get right into the episode when you are there. Thanks for listening. We'll see you there. Bye.