The Icebox Murders: Dismemberment, A Missing Son, and the Wild JFK Conspiracy Connection

In the summer of 1965, Houston, Texas, police performed a welfare check that led to the discovery of one of the most disturbing crime scenes in the state's history. The dismembered bodies of Fred and Edwina Rogers were found chillingly placed inside their own refrigerator. The couple's son, Charles Rogers, vanished without a trace and remains the only suspect in this brutal case.

This episode dives deep into the unsettling mystery of the Icebox Murders and questions whether this heinous act was the deed of a lone, desperate man, or if it was part of a larger, darker conspiracy. We explore the wild theories that have kept this case alive for decades, ranging from hidden CIA plots to shocking, rumored connections to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy (JFK). Join us as we explore the facts and the fiction surrounding this unsolved American mystery.

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TRANSCRIPT:

[00:00:00] This is the kind of story that feels like an urban legend. The kind of tale so horrifying. You'd swear it was made up just to scare people, but it isn't. In the summer of 1965, Houston police performed a welfare check on an elderly couple who hadn't been heard from for days, but what they found was a gruesome nightmare.

This is the story of one of the most disturbing crime scenes in Texas history and a mystery that's never been solved. Join us as we discuss the icebox murders.

Hey guys, and welcome to the Moms and Mysteries podcast, a True Crime podcast featuring myself, Mandy, and my dear friend Melissa. Hi, Melissa. Hi, Mandy. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Doing great. Summer's kicked off. It's kicked off. All right. That's it. Mm-hmm. It has, uh, yeah. I feel like I've gotten now, you know, we're still kind of early in summer, but I've really settled nicely into my summer like routine, which [00:01:00] is a lot different and more laid back than my school year routine.

Yeah. So now I'm, I've kind of gotten spoiled on getting really sleepy in the middle of the day and just being like, well, I can just relax for a little while. There's still plenty of time. Mm-hmm. I don't have anything really to do, you know, I don't have to go anywhere. I don't have to pick up any kids. So, uh, yes, we are sitting down to record.

It's one 30 in the afternoon and I have a cup of coffee because I'm already in my summertime. It's a Wednesday afternoon nap mode. So it's, yeah, it, I'm all over the place right now. I know I have to work. It's the middle of the week, but at the same time, it's also the middle of the summer. So. I know, I know we're gonna swim a little bit after this as long as it doesn't rain, but that's a nice perk in the summer of being able to just get in the water and Yes, get out and work, I guess, or clean.

I should do that. Or doing laundry. I did. That's laundry. That's the great thing about the summer is you're able to get out and clean and work. No, no, no. Get it in the water. Get in the water. Like freshen up in the water. I'm like, don't even [00:02:00] shower, hop in the water. Uh, get out and do your chores. It makes a lot of sense.

It is motivating for kids though. It's do your chores and you can go swimming. That's helpful. Other than that, no. Mm-hmm. I don't know where I'm going. I'm very, very excited about this episode. I was not familiar with this story. I actually got the icebox murders confused with a different, like a serial killer thing.

So this was all brand new information to me. Super fascinating and wow. This is definitely a very crazy story. It sounds like it would be something from a movie or just from a scary story and not a real life thing. It also kind of gave me a little bit of Dexter season one. Vibe. Yes. Um, with the ice truck killer.

See, that's what I'm coming up with. Uh, maybe that is kind of where your, um, subconscious connected that. Mm-hmm. Uh, and that's what you were thinking something different. But that's kind of what I was thinking at first. That was the first thing I thought of was right, Dexter. That whole season was about the Ice Truck killer, and it [00:03:00] was actually a very similar, uh, premise to that season as what happened in this real life story.

So let's just get into it. So Fred and Edwina Rogers weren't the type of people that you would expect to meet some kind of tragic or gruesome end. Fred who was born way back in 1884 was 81 years old when this story unfolded. He was a retired real estate salesman, but depending on who you asked, that really wasn't the full story.

Some say Fred dabbled in gambling and fraud, and a few even claimed that he was a bookie by trade. His wife, Edwina, or Eby, as she was known to friends, was born in 1892. She was 79 at the time of the story and worked as a Tupperware saleswoman, which brought in a little extra income. It's actually funny to me that like.

I feel like Tupperware sales was like the first MLM that ever existed. Absolutely. Before it was considered multi-level marketing. Mm-hmm. But don't you remember those, [00:04:00] um, like door tto, Tupper parties, Tupperware, or, I remember we used to get people, I don't know why this one stands out, but I remember one time we had like a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman.

Yes. To our house. But I remember, um, my mom saying like. She would never buy something from one of the, one of the people who came to your door. Mm-hmm. Like trying to sell you Tupperware or a vacuum or anything else. But it is crazy to think about how far back that actually goes. Oh yeah. Well, my PA parents, I very much remember this.

The nicest vacuum cleaner we ever had was because my dad did like paint and body work on the side, and so someone didn't have enough money to pay him, and they were like, we just got this. Really nice vacuum cleaner for, from a door to door salesman. And so we ended up with it and I remember that just being like the thing in our house.

And I'll just never forget the bartering that went along with that, but like that was a big thing in the eighties and nineties. Yeah. So Fred and and Wena had two children though. Their first child, a daughter named Betty Charlotte tragically died at the age [00:05:00] of 10 in an accident that is still shrouded in mystery and there is not a lot of information about it.

But it was the couple's second child, Charles, who would prove to be the one who left a lasting mark on the family's legacy. Charles was born in 1921 in Houston, and by most accounts, he was a very gifted man. He enrolled at Texas a and m in the early 1940s. Eventually, Charles transferred to the University of Houston where he earned a bachelor of science degree in nuclear physics.

During World War ii, Charles served as a Navy pilot, which is a very prestigious role in the Navy. After the war, he got a job with Shell Oil as a seismologist, which is a scientist that studies earthquakes and the Earth's internal structure. After years with this company, Charles just abruptly quit with no explanation.

In 1957. By the time of our story, Charles was 43 years old and was living in an upstairs bedroom at his parents' home. [00:06:00] His lifestyle was always more reclusive, but things had reached an extreme level so extreme that neighbors who'd been living next to the Rogers for seven years said they didn't even know that Charles a full.

Grown 43-year-old man existed and was living in this home. Yeah. Charles rarely interacted with anyone, and he would enter and exit the house through the garage to avoid all unnecessary contact. Charles was a very eccentric man with an impressive intellect about him. He reportedly spoke seven different languages.

He was also a ham radio enthusiast, and even though operating a ham radio does require skill and even licensing, it's not clear whether Charles ever officially obtained a license. Even to his own extended family, Charles was largely a mystery. His cousin, Martin Marvin, described him as a small man. He was about five, seven and 130 pounds, and Martin said he had no idea what Charles did with his days or [00:07:00] whether or not he even had a job.

What Martin did know is that Charles kept to himself. Charles cooked his own meals on a hot plate in his bedroom, and he kept a very, very strange and secretive existence within the walls of his parents' home. As unsettling as Charles's behaviors had become, no one could have imagined just how far things were about to spiral in the late spring or early summer of 1965.

Charles was as elusive as ever. His cousin Martin had visited a couple of weeks prior, but Charles was never home. When Martin would come by, Martin kept in touch with his aunt Edwina regularly over the phone. According to his Aunt Charles was like a shadow in the house. He would leave early in the morning long before his parents ever woke up, and he wouldn't return until after they were in bed for the night, even when they were all home at the same time.

Charles hardly ever spoke to his parents. I will say this sounds kind of like a teenager, but this is way more extreme and a full grown man. Um, so if he needed to [00:08:00] communicate with them, he would just slide notes under their bedroom doors. Edwina talked to Martin about these things, and it was clear that the Erie setup was really wearing her down.

On June 23rd, Martin called to check up on his aunt and uncle, but he wasn't able to get through to them, so he started to get worried and he ended up driving to their home on Driscoll Street. When he got there, he immediately noticed that the newspapers and mail were piling up outside. This would end up being the first of many unsettling signs of trouble.

Martin knocked on the door, but no one answered. He tried the handle, but he wasn't able to get in that way either. By this time, Martin was alarmed enough to call the Houston Police Department to request a welfare check on his aunt and uncle. Officer Bullock and Officer Barta were dispatch to the house.

They noted that the door was locked, but something else captured their attention. There was a bizarre barricade of flower pots that had been stacked just inside the entryway as if someone was trying to keep others out. [00:09:00] Or keep something in. The officers sensed that something was suspicious and seemed wrong, so they forced the door open to investigate.

Further. At first, the house appeared surprisingly normal. There was no overturned furniture and no sign of a struggle inside. But Captain Bullock later said something about the place just felt off as they made their way around the house. Officer Bullock randomly felt the urge to check in the refrigerator.

He later said, I don't know why I looked in the refrigerator. For some reason, I just opened it. When he first opened it, it looked like there were stacks of butchered hog meat or something packed inside the fridge, and Bullock started to close the door. But then at the last moment, he spotted something that would make even the most seasoned detective recoil.

He saw two severed human heads carefully placed in brown paper bags in the vegetable bin of the refrigerator. The officers quickly realized what they had just found. It was the dismembered remains of Fred and Edwina Rogers [00:10:00] the next day. An article in the Amarillo Globe Times described the gruesome scene.

It read on all the shelves and in the freezer compartment where the dismembered bodies cut in, washed off pieces smaller than individual joints. Whoever was responsible for this had not acted on impulse. The bodies were meticulously cleaned, dissected, and arranged inside the fridge and freezer neatly.

Investigators later discovered that Fred's eyes had been gouged out. Edwina's face was bruised, and both victims had suffered fatal head wounds, likely inflicted with a claw hammer. The precision involved in the dismemberment itself led authorities to believe the killer had some degree of anatomical knowledge.

They didn't believe this was the work of someone in a panic and in the aftermath of a hasty rage filled attack. This was calculated in clinical. The physical evidence was chilling. And the one question on everyone's mind now was, where was Charles Rogers? And we're gonna get [00:11:00] into that after a quick break to hear a word from this week's sponsors.

And now back to the episode. Before the break, we started unraveling the mystery of the icebox murders that took place back in Houston. In June of 1965, police discovered the dismembered bodies of Fred and Edwina Rogers stuffed inside their own refrigerator. And their son Charles, who lived in the home at the time.

Was nowhere to be found. As words spread about the horrific scene inside the Rogers home, the investigation kicked into high gear. Police quickly determined that the murders likely took place the Saturday before Father's Day, just a few days before the bodies were discovered. When the medical examiner began his work, the full extent of the brutality became clear.

Edwina was badly beaten before she was shot. Execution style. While Fred severed an even more gruesome fate, he was bludgeoned with a claw hammer. His eyes were removed and he had been emasculated. It was later learned that Fred's organs were flushed down the Holmes sewer system. [00:12:00] Both of the bodies were drained of blood, and investigators determined that the dismemberment took place in the upstairs bathroom.

The autopsy showed that both victims died from severe head wounds. The medical examiner noted that the killer seemed to have a disturbingly precise understanding of human anatomy. It was clear that the dismemberment was not sloppy or rushed, but instead had been done meticulously and with great care.

Authorities never found the instruments used to carry out the dismemberment, but they did recover A keyhole, saw a knife and scissors from inside the home that may have played a role. And while all of this was shocking enough, it's what investigators didn't find that was equally unsettling. There was almost no blood in the house, meaning whoever committed the murders had spent an enormous amount of time cleaning and scrubbing the scene.

But still, there were a few crucial traces of evidence that remained. There were faint traces of blood found on the bathroom floor, the kitchen floor, and the wooden stairs leading up to Charles' bedroom. A final trace of blood was discovered on the [00:13:00] keyhole of Charles' bedroom door. There were no signs of forced injury to the home, and it was noted that all the doors and windows were locked from the inside and the blinds were drawn, which meant that whoever killed this elderly couple had full access to every part of the house.

Upstairs in Charles' bedroom, officers found more questions than answers. Charles left behind his commercial pilot's license, an honorable discharge from the Navy musical instruments and a Texas a and m cadet core hat. But there was no sign of Charles himself. Neighbors said they couldn't recall exactly when the last time they saw Fred n Buena alive was, but they were sure it hadn't been during the week.

They were discovered dead. It didn't take long for the police to zero in on their prime suspect, and that was the Rogers son, Charles, of course, the elaborate staging of the crime, the precise anatomical knowledge and his sudden disappearance made him the most likely perpetrator in the eyes of the investigators.

A nationwide search [00:14:00] was launched to find him. Since Charles was a licensed pilot, one of their first moves was to check airports just in case he tried to flee by air. Unfortunately though, since Charles was a literal shut-in that nobody ever saw the police would struggle to recognize him even if they were standing right next to him because no one knew what he looked like.

And of course, there's no photos of him to go off of either. Theories as to where Charles May have gone, started circulating right away with some suggesting he may have escaped to Canada, while others were convinced that he was just hiding off grid in a dense swampy region of East Texas called the big thicket, Charles was actually known to vanish for weeks at a time without a trace, so he could literally be anywhere.

Speculation was high since there were no real or solid leads. Lead investigator Jim Binford said that the theories really ran the gamut from satanic possession to evil government agencies. The rumors truly did run wild. In 1997, more than 30 years after [00:15:00] the murders, a Houston couple named Hugh and Martha Gardenier took it upon themselves to reinvestigate the case.

I thought this was so interesting because of like. The level of time and like dedication these people took to look into this 30 years later. Like, it kind of makes me feel like they were just a, a, a really cool married couple that were like, you know, we just need a hobby. Let's just find something to do and look into this like really old, cold case.

And, but it's, it's crazy because they ended up uncovering a lot of information. Yeah. So they conducted interviews with over a hundred people and combed through old police reports, and ultimately self-published an ebook titled The Icebox Murders. Their conclusion was that the simplest explanation was probably the correct one that Charles Rogers had killed his parents.

According to the gardeners, though, it went beyond just a random act of madness. They believed Charles had endured a lifetime of emotional and physical abuse at the hands of his parents, Fred and Edwina. Furthermore, Charles had [00:16:00] reportedly been financially exploited by his parents for years, though Charles technically owned the family home, his parents had allegedly forged his signature on property deeds and taken out loans in his name, putting him in a financial stranglehold.

When the gardeners spoke to surviving family members, they uncovered even more disturbing claims. Some relatives weren't exactly shocked by the murders. In fact, they were surprised that it hadn't happened sooner. Several family members allegedly told the gardeners that the Rogers had it coming. Ooh. So based on their investigation, the gardeners believed that after committing the murders, Charles fled to Honduras, where he tapped into old oil industry connections and found work in mining.

They even suggested that Charles went on to make a significant amount of money while living in Central America, but according to their findings, Charles's story didn't end up peacefully. They claim that after some of his mining projects failed to make payroll, he was ultimately killed by [00:17:00] other minors in Honduras.

They allegedly bludgeoned him to death with a pickax. The gardeners also shared their belief that the case was never thoroughly investigated. First Fred's background as a bookie meant that he ran in gambling circles with people who didn't want their names, dragged into a police investigation. Digging too deep into the Rogers family history, might've exposed things that certain members of the community wanted to keep buried.

Secondly, the Houston Police Department in the 1960s ran a small operation without the modern day tools and resources available in current times. The authorities likely did receive tips about Charles' whereabouts, but the prevailing attitude within the department was that the Rogers were just bad characters and they really weren't missed anyway.

Another theory suggested that Charles May have been in far more than just the brutal murder of his parents. Some conspiracy theorists think he may have played a role in one of the most infamous crimes in American history, the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. [00:18:00] This was shocking to me. This is me too, like.

I was like, are you kidding me? How did we get here? But it's actually super fascinating and I don't really know what I believe anymore. Um, so in the 1992 book, the Man on the Grassy Knoll authors, John R. Craig, and Philip A. Rogers, alleged that Charles was one of the mysterious. Tramps photographed in Daley Plaza on the day of the assassination.

So if you're not sure about these so-called tramps, it's not what I thought the word tramp meant in this story, but here's a little more information. Shortly after JFK was shot on November 22nd, 1963, several Dallas area newspapers published photos of three scruffy looking men being escorted by police near the Texas School Book Depository.

These men became known as the three tramps. They were arrested, photographed, and then quietly released without any formal charges or proper identification. No arrest records were made public for years, which only [00:19:00] added fuel to the speculation and conspiracy theorists who began to argue that these men weren't just ordinary vagrants.

They were covert operatives disguised as transient. So the theory goes that the men were positioned near the grassy knoll as backup shooters, or possibly part of a CIA hit squad. The fact that they were released without any clear explanation suggested to many that a coverup was in process. In reality, tramps was a term used at the time to describe underemployed, hard drinking nomads who often hitchhiked on trains.

But once those photos were published, the idea that these three men were involved in the assassination took on a life of its own. So where does Charles Rogers really fit into any of that? You're probably wondering. Well, it turns out that he had a connection to another suspicious figure in the JFK saga, and that was a man named David Ferry.

David was an eccentric guy, and more importantly, he was a member of the Civil Air Patrol where he reportedly crossed paths with Charles Rogers. This is interesting [00:20:00] because David Ferry was also Lee Harvey Oswald's flight instructor in the very same civil air patrol group. Was there like eight people alive at this time?

Because literally we did a story earlier in the year about, um, the lady who had had an affair with JFK, Mary, Mary Pin, Meyer Uhhuh, thank you. And now we're here. And then it's just like, it's, instead of six degrees to seven Kevin Bacon, it's like one degree to JFK. Seriously, there's, it's actually wild how many people.

I have learned, had a connection to JFK in some way. Crazy. Yeah, absolutely. Completely crazy to think about years later, new Orleans, uh, district Attorney Jim Garrison, would publicly identify David Ferry as a potential conspirator in JFK's assassination. And if you connect those dots, it's not hard to see why some people think Charles might have been tangled up in this conspiracy as well.

He had the skills. He was a trained pilot. He spoke seven different languages. He had military [00:21:00] experience and he was known for his. Intelligence and his secrecy, and if the idea that Charles was connected to the JFK assassination wasn't out there enough, it actually gets even weirder than that. The authors of this book also tied Charles's story to another notorious figure, Charles Harrelson, which is.

The father of actor Woody Harrelson. Some people may already know this, especially true crime buffs, but Charles Harrelson was a known contract killer. He was convicted for the murder of businessman Sam Dalia in South Texas, and though he was sentenced to serve 15 years, he managed to get out in five thanks to good behavior.

That's wild. Five years for murder. Murder. Murder. I know. Hired murder. Yeah. Seventies were a different time for sure. Um, in 1979, Harrelson's criminal career actually escalated when he was allegedly paid $250,000 by drug traffickers to assassinate us District Judge John H. Wood, Jr. AKA maximum. John, which he was called [00:22:00] because he had a tendency to opt for the most harsh of sentencing for drug offenders.

Judge Wood was shot and killed outside of his home in Alamo Heights, and that made him the first federal judge to be murdered in the US in the 20th century. During his arrest, Charles Harrelson reportedly confessed to being one of the gunmen involved in JFK's assassination. He later retracted that statement, but the claim of course, only added to the endless conspiracy theories surrounding the case.

Harson was ultimately convicted of Judge Woods's murder and sentenced to two life terms in federal prison. The weapon used in the assassination had been purchased by Harrelson's wife Joanne, who was later convicted of conspiracy to obstruct justice and perjury, and she was eventually released on parole.

Throughout the years, Woody Harrelson supported his father's legal efforts and even hired the famed attorney Alan Dershowitz, for his father's appeals. But in 2004, the Supreme Court denied Harrelson's final appeal, and he died of a heart attack in 2007 at the age of [00:23:00] 69, while he was incarcerated at Colorado's infamous Supermax Federal Prison.

Melissa, you knew. Did you know that about, um, Woody Harrelson's father? I did. And when I was reading about it before, I was thinking that should be a story we cover because it is so wild. It truly is wild. And every time I see Woody Harrelson's face, like I always remember back to that. I'm like, oh yeah.

Like your dad is a, was a very fa infamous person in, uh, in history. Uh, yeah. Very fascinating. And, uh, we're gonna get back into the rest of the story after one last break to hear a word from this week's sponsors. And now back to the episode. So before the break, we were discussing Charles Rogers and the connections he may have had to the JFK assassination of all things that I didn't expect to happen in this story.

But according to John Craig and Philip Rogers, the authors of the Man on the Grassy Knoll, they believed Charles Rogers had documented his own involvement in JFK's assassination in his personal diaries, [00:24:00] and that the discovery of these diaries is what? Ultimately led to the murder of his parents.

Honestly, I'm bought in, I'm bought into this whole theory. I mean by like the third line. I was like, yeah, no, he did it. He's one of the tramps. Yes. So, uh, the theory was that Charles, an intelligent reclusive man, and an alleged CIA asset, had been recruited by the agency in 1956. They claim he was in Dallas on the day of the assassination and then disappeared for five months afterward only to reappear acting in a peculiar way.

When he resurfaced, his mom became suspicious and started tracking his phone calls and questioning his activities, and possibly discovered his diary. It theorized that Charles then murdered both of his parents in an effort to protect the skeletons in his closet. It's also alleged that Charles used his advanced.

Technical skills and ham radio equipment to communicate with other agents. And after the murders he flew to Guatemala, where according to them, he may have lived for years [00:25:00] afterward. Some law enforcement who have been interviewed over the years admitted that the theory is plausible, which is all it takes for me, and I do completely grab onto it, that they also point out that there's no solid evidence or official confirmation of it.

The authors of the book also alleged that Charles May have also been the man who impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City. So weeks before JFK was assassinated, someone claiming to be Lee Harvey Oswald was spotted in Mexico City visiting both the Cuban and Soviet embassies. The story goes that this man was attempting to arrange a trip abroad, but the man who appeared on the surveillance footage didn't look or sound like Oswald much at all.

Even the CIA admitted in private, that the person in those tapes may have been an imposter. Why does the CIA only admit things in private? Oh, it's very hush hush. I, I mean, I feel like that's a whole part of their thing for sure. But like it is funny where it's like 50 years later they're like, yeah, maybe it could be.

[00:26:00] So this detail has fueled speculation for decades, and according to these books, authors, it may have been Charles Rogers. And Charles Rogers actually would've been ideal for covert intelligence work, considering his extensive knowledge in science, cryptography, and radio communications. He was fluent in Spanish and had military experience.

If this impersonation theory was true, which according to Maddy and I absolutely, Charles would've been recruited or potentially volunteered himself to impersonate Oswald in order to muddy the waters and then confuse the intelligence community in regard to Oswald's movements in the weeks leading up to the assassination.

Of course, these theories and as assertations are based on circumstantial connections and not proven with real evidence, except. Signed by Melissa and Maddy exactly. In the years after the icebox murders, Charles Rogers remained a ghost despite a nationwide manhunt and countless theories about his whereabouts and his fate.

Not a single confirmed sighting of [00:27:00] Charles was ever verified, which I also think is wild whenever we hear stories where someone just disappears. Absolutely. Although it's still confusing because nobody seemed to know what he looked like. That's true. That's true. So yeah, that's fair. Nobody does know. We could have seen him.

Exactly. He could be. He could be your neighbor. After nearly a decade of silence, the state had a local judge declare Charles Rogers legally dead in absentia. Though to this day, he remains the only official suspect in the murder of his parents. The question of what truly happened to Charles has never been answered.

Did he flee to Honduras and meet a violent end? Was he a CIA operative who disappeared into the shadows? Or ding, ding, ding. Did he die alone? Never to be found by anyone? Truth is, we just may never know. As for the house at 1815 Driscoll Street where the horrific double homicide took place, it sat abandoned for years after the crime because nobody wanted to live there, of course.

And the neighbors considered the house a nuisance, and it was [00:28:00] just a dark reminder of what had taken place inside. Finally in 1972, the house was torn down and the lot was left vacant for a very long time. It wasn't until the summer of 2000 the space was finally redeveloped, and today, condominiums stand where the Rogers family home once sat, but longtime residents of the area.

Still remember what happened there. According to the True Crime Chronicles podcast, the original crime scene photos from the Rogers House became infamous in the Houston Police Department. This is fascinating. So at one point, 50 large, eight by 10 prints were made for training purposes and circulated among the recruits at the police academy.

And over the years, so many copies of these crime scene photos were made that the negatives eventually wore out so they couldn't even make more and they weren't able to recover all the photos. After, after the fact that the, this is such ran out, like you didn't just make a hard like copy to keep for the police department.

Do not touch. Yes. Right. I think [00:29:00] this is our copy, like, you know, like forever, like this is ours. Uh, they just didn't do that, I guess. Um, maybe they weren't thinking that you could wear the negatives out like that. So, um, to this day though, some of those chilling images could still be floating around in private collections or just tucked inside of boxes that have been long forgotten.

Or like you said, they could just be in like a family member's closet, like who knows? Yeah. What if on Antique Roadshow it came back out and somebody was like, I found this really cool chest, and they opened it and they're like, these are the original photos from the Ice Box murder. That, that would be amazing.

Like, can you imagine? Oh my God, somebody's got them somewhere. It would be amazing. And no, I couldn't imagine. Because what I imagine is that the FBI isn't gonna pay you for them, so. They will if they want 'em back. For me, I would do a goog before I went on to Antique Road Show and be like, what in dear chat GPT what in here could be worth money and what is possibly illegal?

And then I would do what I needed to do. There you go. Um, I'm so glad we have that kind of [00:30:00] faith in, uh, chat GPT now. Yeah. We're like, let's tell the Yeah, we don't want the FBI to not pay us, so we'll tell chat GBT, who I'm sure. My FBI agent report.

We should actually call the cha g Bt, F-B-I-F-B-I girl, because that's probably what it is. But yeah, this story is crazy and I did not know about it. And I really want to read both of the books, the, um, book that the Garden EAs wrote and the um, man on the Grassl. I've never read that, but I really wanna, yeah, yeah.

Well it's really, it's what I love about, um. Like conspiracy theory things is that there's always such a rabbit hole you can go down. Right. And even though I know like quite a bit about the JFK, you know, the different conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination, I feel like even just some of the information, you know, that we discussed in this episode from that book were, were things I had never heard of.

Right. And so it's always interesting to just. Go and [00:31:00] find out more information about something that you already know. And it's crazy, but like I said, it feels like everybody knew JFK back then. Um, everyone, everyone was connected to him. Everyone could have had some role in his assassination. It's truly wild.

So, yeah, this is a, I feel like you were alive during that year. Suspect immediately. Immediately. Just everyone. Yes. Yeah. Um, maybe they would actually figure it out. That, I mean, you know, maybe allegedly. All right guys. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We will have more for you. Wait, what am I saying?

We'll be back next week. That sounds good. That sounds better. Same time, same place. New story. Have a great week. Bye.